*Update VII* Our Epic Dirty Pitcher Billboard Contest
A few weeks ago, we held a “Dirty Pitcher Contest” to see who could come up with the most appropriate theme for our anti natural gas development friends to employ on a billboard - from our own pro-gas, pro-Dimock perspective of course. We did this as we know the residents of Dimock, PA and many of them are downright fed up with the false claims being perpetuated that their town is a wasteland. The fact of the matter is that it is not and its important the truth be told. In fact, we visited with a Dimock resident recently, more on that here and here. Loren Salsman, whose home is in the DEP consent order, invited us over for a tour of his property and a taste of his raw well water.
But as all things do our contest has now come to an end. Our winners will recieve a tour of Dimock so they can see the town for themselves, with their own eyes. Without further ado, our winner is …..
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make sure to capitalize & BOLD the K in fracK
& winning submission needs to go up on a
high visibility billboard in the vicinity
Sounds like you believe that it’s just fine to poison someone’s water and destroy their health and property values as long as you make money.
The fact we can’t print everything you said, Karla, tells us everything we need to know doesn’t it?
Here’s your billboard:
Gimme my money! I don’t care about this town, the people, or the water, just gimme my money. I hate this place anyway. Gimme my money!
Ah! More cleverness – from a “hot poet” no less.
Your sly insinuation is part and parcel of the way the gas industry lies to deceive ordinary citizens. You are the party who edited out my (quite clean & proper) statement, which I was proud to state. This is the action of a weak and cowardly organization.
Let’s see if you have the courage to print the following:
It is evil to put personal profit ahead of the health and safety of other people, which is what you and your masters promote. And where do evil people go when die?
Have you ever considered the day might come when you’ll realize how critical this industry was to the welfare of your children and their futures, Tim? No, I suspect not. I’ll bet you proceed with 100% certainty that you are correct, but I have eternal hope you’ll see the light and give gas a chance.
Gas is a finite source. That’s a no-brainer. We’re delaying the inevitable by refusing to explore other options. Learn more about solar energy Tom, and what smart folks in other countries are doing with it. I think it would be our defacto energy source already, if it weren’t for the petroleum industry spending so much time and money forwarding their agenda. People that claim solar isn’t economically feasible are wrong, even in the Northeast. It’s just less profitable.
That’s pure sophistry. Solar is fine for individual homes and businesses but it won’t run a car, it make plastics and it won’t work for urban areas to which the power has to be transmitted from great distances with no infrastructure in place. Bring it on but don’t pretend it’s a substitute. Moreover, it would lead to huge footprints on the land.
Tom, you are right Solar is fine for individual homes and business utilizing tax credits and subsides. But to provide an uninterrupted power supply to a town or region – especially during peak hours of demand during the summer – would take up an enormous space. Talk about environmental disturbance; besides even the best solar panels today (which are 30% efficient, if that) only last a decade or two. They require plastics and metal for construction not to mention the earth moving equipment that would be needed to clear the land and build the foundations for these arrays to rest on.
I quickly looked up the daily electricity usage of New York City and divided that by an estimated output of 100 acres (keep in mind best case scenario), you are looking at thousands of acres just to supply one city.
Get thee back to church, brother, it’s the only eternal light you should be praying for, not the light from the gas pipe you been smoking.
Gas is dirty to extract—we have to put dangerous chemicals IN the ground and let dangerous compounds, chemicals, minerals, radiation, etc OUT of the ground. We’re leaving dangerous chemicals in the ground (oh yeah, it’s in ROCK, it’s ok..granted that rock has millions of micro-fissures in it from the fracking process) for the future to clean up.
Why are we doing this? OH yeah..so we can power our MacBook, iPad, iPod, iTouch, Nook, Kindle, Tablet PC, Laptop PC, Desktop PC, Printer, blender, microwave oven, air condintioner, furnace blower fan, lights, desk phones, cable/satellite box, gps, phone/smartphone, battery power car (how are we going to dispose of those again–the batteries).
Maybe the Amish and Old Order Mennonites are right..
OH Yeah..and we’re going to hit 7 BILLION people in the world this year… How much does THAT have to do with our energy demands? If we were 1/2 that size, do you think we would be talking about this?
You’re all willing to poison the future for the NOW…sad and perverse.
Pesticides, fertilizers, weed-killers are used by farmers, golf courses, and households on a regular basis. These dangerous chemicals enter our surface waters and underground aquifers on a regular basis. Drilling for natural gas and the process of hydraulic fracturing do not. Fifteen different states were drilling occurs have confirmed this and so has the federal EPA numerous times. Countless studies from Universities and third-party organizations have also confirmed this.
This recently completed study by Fort Worth Texas, continues to prove just how safe natural gas exploration is: http://www.fortworthgov.org/uploadedFiles/Gas_Wells/AirQualityStudy_final.pdf
One news station reported the results this way – Fort Worth air quality report released: The long awaited study by the Eastern Research Group did not reveal any “significant health threats.” … Fort Worth’s new mayor, Betsy Price, said the report’s conclusions brought a sense of relief. “We’ve all been sitting on pins and needles waiting to see,” she said. “I hope it makes people feel better.” She called the report the most comprehensive study of its kind, and said it should relieve fears about pollution from gas drilling. (WFAA-TV, 7/14/11)
Greetings Nicole…Great idea and a good way to shine a light on just how bizarr
and desparate the opposition is and has become…nothing original
nor scientific…therefore purely for fun…and a play on words…
I suggest the following slogen…based on current news…
Has the Dirty Pitcher…Tested Positive…for…Toxic Chemicals…
or Illegal Substances…
No scientific study or no scientific study done that you want to acknowledge? There is a difference, try looking “Dr” Theo Colburn’s study called The Endocrine Disruption Exchange
Your attitude toward the very people who have had their lives disrupted, their wells ruined,and have been villified and ostrasized for seeking redress, serves to make me,and many more “Anti’s” all the more determined to take YOU the Frack Down! We see nothing Humorous or Fun in unknowingly bathing in,cooking with,and drinking Tainted water that was Not un-fit until you filthy,greedy Drilling Ind. shoved Chemicals and explosives underground in search of obscene profits. We don’t “Get ” the cruel joke that is being played once it is confirmed that the water is contaminated and you sing a broken record litany of “We didn’t do it, must have been there all along” and all the other BS you spew! Keep up the good work, you are convincing loads of fence-sitters to protest and dispise you as much as I do!
Pounding the table the way you do suggests to me you don’t have many facts on your side. Care to offer some?
Many famous speakers, like Martin Luther King Jr, Pres. Roosevelt, pounded the table when speaking. You, Tom, are showing YOUR ignorance of the facts. Pounding the table is NOT evidence of absence of facts. Attacking people in Dimock whose drinking water gas drilling companies has destroyed is evidence that you will stop at nothing to prevent us from moving rapidly to non-fossil fuel sources of energy. Aren’t you paying attention to the searing drought across the U.S. pointing to the need for us to move now to renewable sources of energy? Or are you one of those ignoring the evidence that does not suit your agenda? Of course, you are.
Please. Rapidly deploy non-fossil energy. The world which you seek is not immediately possible. Renewables are developing at a faster clip. The domestic U.S. solar industry grew 20 percent last year. Unfortunately, most of this growth was related to government subsidies which may or not be renewed as Congress doesn’t exactly have much cash these days. Renewables are growing but not fast enough to support U.S. domestic energy needs by any measure. Not to mention the products, transportation systems, mechanical and industrial operations that all require fossil fuels. Also plastics, fertilizers, pharmaceuticals all require fossil fuels. The list goes on and on. This is something that doesn’t happen over night.
Moreover, the world is growing. More societies are developing and adopting western lifestyles that greatly increase the need for energy. To the extent we know we will continue to have to use fossils for the foreseeable future we may as well use the cleanest of them all. Not too mention that as this world grows energy will become more scarce and valuable. As this occurs it seems to me it makes sense to develop our domestic reserves to increase our security and makes us less susceptible to shocks in the world market which will cause significant disruptions. Further, solar and wind have drawback as well. Mainly space requirements and water use (solar), lack of storage capacity (solar), inefficient production (solar), aesthetic issues (wind), mostly overseas part and components (wind), impacts to wildlife, specifically bird kills (wind) http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-01-04-windmills-usat_x.htm., and again the production capability is limited.
The fact of the matter is that gas and renewables can and do co-exist. In the past decade many powerplants have moved from coal to co-generating natural gas facilities. Providing the power we need while significantly reducing noxious emissions and particulate matter pollution. I’m tired of the propogations and sensationalism of these irrational fears because certain groups are afraid development of this needed and transformational resource will delay production of renewables. This is unfounded and untrue. In fact, I imagine the economic activity that will be created by development of this resource will lead to increased taxes, increased innovation and research will grow the pot for all and make continued aid in funding research and renewable projects more possible.
Great comment, John – very illuminating!
Obviously, you’re unaware of the old adage about pounding the facts, the law and, if you have neither, the table. It’s also obvious your main beef is not with gas per se but with the fact it potentially delays the development of renewables. Nothing could be further from the truth. It is a transitional energy source that is essential to any renewables strategy. Neither solar nor wind are even remotely capable of delivering what we need and would have vastly larger environmental impacts than gas. That is easily demonstrated and doesn’t even address the problem of getting the energy where it’s needed. Likewise, biofuels are essentially a scam and take more energy to produce than they yield. Droughts only make them even more difficult. We must have natural gas development now if we are to move to a new energy future. Finally, you’re saying that water has been destroyed doesn’t make it so. We visited a home the other day with a methane filtering system and it’s working well. Moreover, the water quality is gradually improving independent of the system. Were there issues? Yes, but they have been addressed and nothing has been “destroyed.”
Pro Gas Drillers must not have any respect for the beautiful clean countryside and fresh water. Nor do they have any regard for people who’s lives are being ruined. This issue brings out the ugliness in some people. Gas Drilling with chemicals is so clearly wrong.
Are you serious? Have you looked under your kitchen sink lately? Is cleaning your house with chemicals so wrong? Come on!
yes, it is Tom. These chemicals can invade our water sources too. Unfortunately, many are unaware of the effects these chemicals can play on our environment and our health. The industry, however, does know-they just can’t see past the profits!
I live in this beautiful clean countryside and absolutely love the land I live in. This industry is able to extract natural gas in a safe, clean manner that will result in significant positive economic impacts on the residents of PA and NY. And there’s nothing wrong about that.
Do you have an active frack pad 500 feet from your home? Do you have a water well?
If not, then recognize yourself for what you are: an industry shill, promoting unsafe practices that endanger the health and safety of your immediate neighbors, as well as most of rural Pennsylvania and New York State.
You and your fellow shills repeating “its safe” over and over does not make it so. You are working to destroy this countryside you find so beautiful.
Gas drilling and fracking, as it is practiced in the field in Pennsylvania, uses poor standards, poor practices, inadequate regulation, self-reporting (THAT works really well) illegal dumping on roads and land, and includes as a standard practice the dumping of fracking wastewater contaminated with toxic chemicals and radiation into streams & rivers that supply drinking water to people.
And because of gas drilling practices in PA, methane migration to water wells is business as usual. I have a cousin who is a geological water engineer who works for a drilling outfit in PA. He spends all his time visiting drilling sites that have contaminated nearby water wells through methane migration. Standard.
Not 500 feet, no, but multiple wells beginning a little less than a mile away, one of which is in fact upstream from my water well. Please see my previous comments on this.
I am not a “shill”. I am an educated landowner who realized there was a need to help educate others in my community and found a way to get involved doing so. And gas drilling is safe and is not destroying Pennsylvania.
I know many people who work on well sites and I am not sure where you are getting your information, but it is inaccurate. The companies are not using poor standards and are continuously improving upon their practices. We have some of the strictest regulations in the country, and most operators go above and beyond these. It is common practice for every industry to self report in Pennsylvania and inspections are done to ensure accuracy and enforcement. Can you document this illegal dumping? And waste water is being recycled on site or taken to injection wells in Ohio. The facilities that do treat it must bring it to drinking water standards to release it into streams, according to Scott Perry of DEP.
If you take a piece of Marcellus Shale and run a geiger meter over it, it will in fact register the same radiation as a piece of granite counter top or a fire alarm. Seriously, the JLCNY does a demonstration of this all the time. You should see how off the charts a “safe” sample of uranium is, though!
Methane migration is a problem that is being worked on by the industry and DEP. There are many cases of methane in wells prior to Marcellus drilling and some after because we have some very shallow sand beds that hold a different type of thermogenic methane in Pennsylvania. I am sure your cousin can explain that to you, as well, and I am not arguing that he probably does see a lot of methane in wells–some pre-existing and some possibly from Marcellus.
But, by your logic, anything your cousin tells you should be taken with a grain of salt, because he does in fact work for the industry. Isn’t that what you were saying in the first half of your comment? You can’t have it both ways.
Looks like once again, Enrgy in Depth is having a ‘perception problem’. When I toured through Dimock, I lost count of how many water buffaloes I saw at people’s homes. For some reason, when I asked them about it, they said they ‘Couldn’t talk about it.’ Not being able to talk about WHO they get their clean water from or WHY has Non-Disclosure Agreement written all over it.
If EID really wants to speak to the truth about natural gas development, I have a proposal: Let’s tally up all of the people across all of the shales with complaints about water contamination-then let’s see where their home is in relation to a gas field. In my tours across the Shales, I’ve yet to meet one single person who had contaminated water that wasn’t on top of or dangerously close to a drill site. Also of interest, is the fact that the only science EID or their fan club use is the corrupted state regulatory agency that only tests for chlorides or just says “It’s always been that..It was like that long before we drilled through their water table, pumped tens fo thousands of gallons of carcinogens through it, then pumped it back up through the water table one more time. We also use the type of cement that does not degrade or crack, the steel in the pipe that never rusts, corrodes or breaks, and we only drill where the Earth does not shift or move.”
Oh, yes, the state agencies aren’t reliable but you are, Tim, right? Yes, I’m sure we’re all going to rely upon the tests conducted by your ShaleTest volunteers! And, I suppose the recently released study that found the Barnett Shale isn’t causing the air pollution problems you claim is also bunk?
I don’t think we need to talk to all the complainants, by the way. There’s a simpler approach. Let’s just test the water in that one jug of brown water that gets so much attention.
Also, are you denying there are existing problems with shallow methane migration in the Northern Tier? I’m afraid the evidence is very much against you if you are.
Finally, you’ll notice I edited out the personal attack at the end of your comment, Tim. Don’t try that again.
The state agencies are not reliable-and we have two. The TCEQ claims that they are limited in what they can do within the law, and the TRRC will just simply say “We need the energy”. It’s pretty bad at the TRRC when the one of the commissioners, now running for Congress, finds a conclusion about contaminated water PRIOR to the investigation. Then, imagaine our surprise, it turned out exactly like he said it would. That ‘shallow migration’ is the new “There’s not one documented case’ story.
And what was the personal attack? Suggesting Nicole have a well drilled next to her home? What’s wrong with that? That’s not an attack, nor was it meant to be. I think every mineral right owner, and every single member or associate of EID should have a well drilled next to their home. EID is apparently supportive of having wells drilled 200 feet or less from our homes, so, if it’s not that big of a deal…….or better yet, a compressor station like we now have. Why is there a compressor station so close to out home? “Because there is no law that says we can’t….and there’s plenty of acreage right here for it.”
By the way, not one ShaleTest volunteer is collecting water samples, or more importantly, doing any testing. We have several different labs we use and the samples collected are documented in a stricter accordance than even EPA protocol.
Looking forward to seeing the contest winner!
Ah, what you don’t realize, Tim, is that Nicole has had wells drilled near her home and knows full well of what she speaks, but I’ll let her explain that in her own words when she has the time. Stay tuned!
Hi Tim. I do in fact have several wells next to my home. I live in one of the most active areas on this side of Lycoming County. As I said in a previous comment, my shallow water well sits in a stream downstream from a drilling pad less than a mile away. You know what worries me? The way the previous owners had it dug, cased and covered and the cows upstream. I’m not worried about that drilling site or any of the others near me. If a surface spill ever did occur, and they do every once in awhile because the people working on the rigs are human, I have confidence that the company and DEP will fix the problem. There is a compressor station being built right up the road on 118. I’m not worried about that one either. I know that it will be in a sound resistant building to prevent lower outside noise levels, that emissions are low and have talked with people who grew up with them on their properties and turned out fine. I wish we had more land so we could get a pad on our property because it doesn’t scare me to have them drill out of my back door, and maybe with increased technology 2 acres will be enough some day, but for now I am content living as a leased landowner in an active drilling area who is not receive royalties, but is dealing with the other impacts. It is not uncommon to see water and other trucks going up my country road, once gravel and now paved. I pay them about as much mind as all of the tractors that make the same trek daily.
Aruba Petroleum waited for us to leave the house before cutting a 100 ft section out of our $15K fence to let in the bulldozers. Tore up more than 4 acres out of the 10 we had. Then proceeded to blast us with diesel exhaust for more than two months with the constant truck traffic, semi’s parked on the pad all day, engines running, and of course, the engines on the drill rig. Then they had a drilling mud blowout. Did they come over and tell us about it? No, they covered it up, then denied it ever happened-until we showed them a video tape of it occurring and their workemen covering it up. Then they had a chemical spill. Didnlt tell us about that, either. Then they had another spill, and they covered that up-and the TRRC let them get away with it. Then one of their wizards ‘forgot’ to close a thief hatch, and one of the tanks gushed out condensate and heavy gas vapor for more than 12 hours before someone managed to come by and shut it off. TRRC gave them a pass on that one, as did the TCEQ.
Due to the daily complaints, Aruba installed a 30′ flare. They installed it incorrectly, so it belched out fire and black smoke 24/7. It took an email and video sent to the manufacturer to get it corrected. Less than 5 motnhs after they installed it, production dropped so much, they took the flare out. Now we have workover rigs out every weekend. Every weekend as in every weekend. Trying to get the production up, but they can’t cant use nitro fracking because they were ordered not to by the Gas and Oil State Attorney General. Too close to our home, you’ll have to find another way. So we have diesel generators burning all day long FRi, Sat and Sun. How nice.
The drill rigs and now leaking well heads are 200 feet outside my back door. We now have a compressor station 600 feet out the front, with a body of water in between. I’m sure you know that sounds carries well over water. “Oh, you’ll get used to it” they say. Compressor station is powered by a large diesel generator. More diesel exhaust.
To demonstrate how greedy Aruba is, and how outdated the laws are, most other companies took a pass on drilling out here. Not Aruba, they’re so small they have to take what they can get. How convenient that they only drill wells 200 feet from people’s homes and largely in the unicorporated areas. Saves so much time and aggrevation of having to deal with all those pesky town ordinances. If you could take a looka round, you’d see we are surrounded by hundreds and hundreds of acres of open space. These geniuses decide to park their crap 200 feet outside my daughter’s bedroom. Why? Because they could, and they love money.
We live in a fairly small town. Our kids have a tendency to be on the same ball teams. Some of those kid’s parents work for other drillers. It’s pretty bad when Devon, CHK and others are all saying the same thing: “Aruba is ruining this for the rest of us.”
Our water is contaminated. We had it tested PRIOR to the drilling and several times after by different labs. It’s contaminated with drilling fluid. How it got in our drinking water is up for argument, I suppose, but the fact that it wasn’t present prior to the drilling is not.
Trial is scheduled for the Fall, and I can’t hardly wait. Wonder if they’ll do what a number of these other companies do, fight for year, deny, deny, deny…..then write a check with a non-diclosure agreement attached.
I’m thrilled that you have a well 200 feet outside your home, and you aren’t the least bit worried about any emissions, either from the wells or the compressor station, and the noise doesn’t bother you. Quite a rarity. Of course, if you never do any testing, it’s quite easy to assume there are no issues.
Tim, I understand your anger and, if your accusations are correct (I have no reason to think they aren’t) then who could not be sympathetic? I really only have three responses. First, this is not what is happening in New York and Pennsylvania, both of which have much more comprehensive regulatory systems in place than apparently existed in your neighborhood. Both the gas company and the state have risen to the occasion in the case of Dimock to address issues (despite some disgruntled folks whose objectives I cannot discern). Secondly, I notice you use the term “drilling fluids” and not fracturing fluids. Therefore, I assume the problem is not with fracturing per se but with the way the well was drilled, which is quite a different matter. Finally, I think a good part of your justifiable anger is attributable to not doing a proper title search before you acquired your property. I don’t offer that as an excuse for the behavior you describe (again, assuming your description is accurate) but it is undeniably at least part of the problem.
Tom,
are you suggesting we rely upon the industry to tell us what is safe?
So, you would rely upon government then, I take it? If so, do you accept Lisa Jackson’s statements about the track record of fracturing? Do you accept the DEP’s statement that Crystal Stroud’s well wasn’t poisoned? Do you accept DEC’s statements about hydraulic fracturing in the SGEIS?
Tim,
I don’t have a well 200 feet from my house, but there are a few within a mile of the property. We only own 2 acres, which at this time is not enough for a pad to be placed actually on our property. I do not know much about Aruba because they are not operating in Pennsylvania as far as I know, and if what you say is true, I think it is unfortunate what you experienced. The industry tends to be looked at as a whole, not by individual companies, and one company can smear the good deeds of others, like Chesapeake was (you mentioned knowing employees of that company). Here, as Tom has mentioned, we do have stricter regulations and the companies are held accountable for their actions by our DEP and themselves. I believe if that company is operating here, those types of things would not be tolerated, nor would they occur. I can attest to this from experience as my own experiences with drilling in my neighborhood have not been all sunshine and rainbows.
I can also understand your anger. When the landmen started coming around like 3 or so years ago, we signed a lease at what we thought was a pretty good price–not nearly as high as today’s leasing, but not as low as we have heard some people. Why did we sign? Because we didn’t understand how any of the process works and were told by everyone that we talked to that whether we signed or not we would have our gas taken from underneath us, so we might as well take the money. We were very much prepared for destruction of the place we love and call home and even started making plans for where we might move to after I graduated from my masters program because we didn’t want to live in a “wasteland”.
We heard trucks going by at all hours of the night and our little country road became quite the freeway. Roads near us were torn up to the point of being almost undrive-able and we were very much in the crowd of people complaining about everything that was happening, especially because we couldn’t understand why we weren’t receiving royalties yet when we could take the roads and clock out less than a mile to a site, which meant it was a much shorter distance as the crow flies. (The trucks now come at pretty regular hours and not nearly as many or as often as at first. And the roads have since been paved to much better than what they originally were.)
So last summer about this time, our neighbor finds out he has methane in his well because it is bubbling. He bought the property a couple of years prior and this was one of the first times he had checked on it. We know this because an inspector from DEP came around and asked where our water well was (I can honestly say I didn’t know and showed him 2 others on the property that weren’t the one we actually use) and came back several times with the “sniffer” and other equipment to test the water coming from our tap. Our neighbor ended up being the only one in the area effected and neither of the two companies’ wells in the area matched the methane in his well. His was not shale methane, but I still don’t know if it was shallow thermogenic or biogenic.
So, this was our first water test and it said our water was “clean” or at least anything in it was below the minimum drinking standard. Great, but we later heard that the gentleman who tested went to work for a company and we thought for sure he had tampered with our test, at this point being a little paranoid of what was happening around us and since we didn’t understand the difference in methane, couldn’t understand why no company was being held responsible for the neighbor’s well. –I now understand the difference in methane and realize that he probably always had a problem or it could be from the horses that use the restroom pretty close to his water supply.
Anyway, so on the 16th or 17th of November last year, I am on the road in NJ as an Admissions Counselor for LHU, and I get a call from my boyfriend telling me that there was a spill up the road and our well is “contaminated.” Apparently the news said we had thousands (like 30,000) gallons of frac fluid that was leaked from a truck and ended up in our stream that our water well sits in. He said he had taken a shower that morning and could taste the salt on his lips from it. So we freaked. I wasn’t home and he couldn’t take off of work, so we had his dad call DEP and find out what was going on. They were already aware and were coming to test our water that night or the next day. (I am not exactly sure when it was tested because I wasn’t here for this part). So I come home for the weekend and Thanksgiving, and the company who owns the site comes by and delivers us 4 cases of bottled water so I could cook Thanksgiving dinner for my family and as a good will gesture.
He (the representative) doesn’t offer much information at this time and I honestly didn’t know what to ask. I thought for sure it was something horrible and our well was destroyed if they were bringing us water. We cracked jokes with our family all through the holidays about “don’t drink the water” while we waited to find out what was going to happen and we started showering at families’ homes because our water was not “safe.” The company came several times over the next few weeks to test our water–well the water testing company came, but we didn’t know the difference and thought they were avoiding our questions when they didn’t have answers for us.
So, we get our results back from DEP first and they are delivered to my boyfriend’s dad, who is told by the guy–I wouldn’t drink it. We go through all of December not showering at home and buying bottled water for ourselves and our animals, trying to find someone who can explain our results to us because DEP had already explained them just not in layman’s terms we could understand.
In January, I am no longer working for the university, so I have my boyfriend call the company and demand they come out and explain everything to us and let us know what is happening.
The guy comes out to our house and is floored to learn we haven’t been showering there and still aren’t drinking the water. He asks for a cup and offers to drink the water before explaining anything to us. After about 2 hours at our house answering any and all questions we had from what actually happened to what will happen with our lease, etc. for the first time in almost 2 months we finally feel safe in our home and shower there.
You see, our water tested below the state minimum drinking standards for everything. What had actually occurred back in November was a leak from a truck that released a couple thousand gallons of salt water—not frac fluid—into the stream as a result of either human error or faulty equipment. We did notice a spike in salt at first, but the majority of the water had been diluted by the time it reached us and every test since came up at about the same levels as our test from the summer. There was no radiation running through our walls which have baseboard water heating and we had been putting ourselves out for nothing.
Needless to say–we felt like quite the idiots. Not only had we not sought the information ourselves about our own situation, but we hadn’t bothered to look up any other information about drilling or fracturing fluid or anything. And I called myself an Honors student with a masters degree? I was pretty ashamed of how hysterical I had gotten and how much I had smeared the company, as was my boyfriend, because that night the industry became a person and we gave him a level of trust in his explanation.
I started researching and finding out everything I could about what was going on, eventually deciding that I might want to work in some way in the industry.
I started going to Pa Careerlink and took a roustabout class at Penn College where I learned about the industry from start to finish. I started helping with curriculum development of more entry level courses, and working with PAGasDirectory, and just getting out and talking to any and everyone I could about what was going on around me. In a matter of months, both of our views of the industry had changed drastically and we were educating our friends and family about different things.
My boyfriend now works for a hydraulic fracturing company as a diesel mechanic and I have this job and we confidently explain different processes to anyone interested in hearing. We aren’t afraid to explain what happened to us because it was the catalyst that lead us to get educated about the industry, and we don’t want anyone else to have that unfounded fear disrupt their lives like we let happen. We don’t have any bad feelings for the company that had the accident and the guy that once posed such a threat to us is now someone we feel we can call freely with questions. We weren’t ever approached with a gag order, never received any money for our troubles, and still use our same water well.
Great job, Nicole! Hopefully, our commenters will now realize you speak from experience and knowledge.
Corporate profit at public expense….drink up!
Care to specify what that public expense might be, given that gas companies have repaired roads to better than ever condition and otherwise compensated property owners for any additional costs incurred by them, all of that being paid from the profits you abhor?
Public Costs: Potential damage to the environment, the loss of wooded areas, long term effects not disclosed or estimated to people, land, livestock, environment. Companies refusing to accept the fact they are responsible for damaging wells, if they do, there should be a buy out of the home at current retail home prices, plus 25%-50% minimum, as it has disrupted lives, jobs, and everyday living, not to mention the loss of home values in the surrounding areas, should the neighbors well be contaminated.
Corporate profits: meaning prices will never be reduced here in America no matter how many wells are drilled, it is supply and demand, as companies will hold gas in reserve in an effort to keep prices high here and abroad.
A large majority of people who promote fracking are either directly tied to the corporate profits, large tract land owners, or uneducated.
Ah, another anti-capitalist, I see. Your property value statement is pure conjecture and you know it. There is every evidence gas drilling increases property values wherever it occurs all over Pennsylvania and New York. I know because I have done several studies of property values in both states and the trend is up throughout the Marcellus Shale play. Everything to the contrary has consisted of speculation and facts. I suggest you research it a little more carefully.
AMen!!!!
Birds of a feather …
Val, Val, Val. I am informing you that I’m not going to post your other two comments. Name calling really doesn’t serve any purpose and especially doesn’t add to the discussion. So many people on here have commented about childishness, but those comments took the cake. So, for future reference, while we appreciate your visit to our site, don’t waste your time writing us those kind of things because you won’t see them appearing on here.
Cower in the wake of my anti-drilling billboard, it can be seen on highways all over the state, and has been funded by the kind and honest people of NEPA whose destroyed lives you carelessly mock!!!
We don’t cower by the way, but let me say that I talked to numerous Dimock folks with and without wells, with and without methane issues, who are sick and tired of having their area portrayed as one with dirty water by agenda driven groups opposed to all natural gas development. I assure you they are “kind and honest people,” there lives have not been destroyed and there are a whole lot of them.
Dear Tom,
I’m not sure where you hail from, but I am from a town just outside of Dimock. Hence, I have talked to the residents of Dimock as well. I assure you that, for at least some of them (particularly those who have moved to Dimock and built a house in anticipation of a peaceful life in the country), “destroyed life” is hardly an exaggeration.
I am not surprise some who recently moved there from somewhere else might feel that way. That is the classic attitude of folks who move into a rural community having earned their incomes and earning their wealth elsewhere. They no longer care about those things because they’[ve made it and they want to close the door behind them, let no one else in, ensure no change and thereby prevent locals from doing what they did – earn a decent living and provide for their families. I deal with this phenomena every single day as move-ins from New York City and Philadelphia attempt to preserve the pastoral scenes they love but they are really preserving is what Daniel Henninger called “pastoral poverty. They don’t really care much about jobs and such mundane things because they no longer need them.
Tom ..you are digging yourself a deeper whole here with each comment…give up!
produce the Chain of Custody…on the Dimock Juggers…stage prop…
Defend Transgendered Mutation…as applauded at Afton…Twice…
Justify denial of the Leatherstocking residential/commercial use of gas to lower the cost of…
home heating and industrial usage…as is enjoyed by the majority of Urbanites…but…
that has been turned into a Anti Corporate anything based on Frac…with a…K…diatribe…
Defend or Stand Down…Produce the Proof…
The Ft Worth air study results came out yesterday and coincided with the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality’s public hearing for the ozone state implementation plan. Ed Ireland, an industry economist, said that 7 drillers make up two thirds of the Barnett Shale emissions (based on their phase 2 equipment inventories). Those 7 companys estimated they ONLY emit 21 tons per day. Figure another 10 tpd for the other 1/3 non mainstream drillers, for a total of the industry claiming they emit 31 tpd. The ERG study estimates Ft Worth emitting 57 tpd. Ft Worth emits almost twice than what the industry
claims for the whole Barnett Shale. I was the second speaker & questioned him that this equipment inventory does not account for START UPS, maintenance and shut down emissions that the Permit By Rule (a loop hole to nonregulation)exempts. Now I pose this very same question to ERG if they are also excluding these (PBR exempt) emission estimates. I wonder how many of the 388 sites were in the start up phase? We need to know what those emissions are and apply that to the over 1,200 producing wells for a historical perspective. Then we need maintenance records of all the compressor station’s emissions during filter changes and blow downs and estimate “those” emissions. THEN we can say what we have been emitting and can make future projections. Chesapeake has recently notified mineral holders that they will keep about 20 rigs in North Texas and has a goal of drilling almost 400 more wells this year! I should know I was a mineral holder that was swindled out of my residential zoning status and now live in an industrialized neighborhood!
Hard to follow all this, but the bottom line seems to be that you do not accept the conclusions of a lengthy $1 million study conducted by two reputable research firms hired by the City of Fort Worth. That study found “none of the estimated concentrations reached levels expected to be associated with adverse health effects” and it includes very detailed information backing up its conclusions and recommendations. Check it out:
http://www.energyindepth.org/2011/07/new-barnett-shale-air-emissions-study-finds-%e2%80%9cno-significant-health-risks%e2%80%9d/
This is so cruel and so is Tom. The PA DEP has publicly stated that the methane in the wells of 14 residents of Dimmock is the type of methane that Cabot O&G is fracing for. And the roads in Hickory are far from being repaved and certainly not better than before Texas rolled into town. I wonder Tom, do you still claim cigarette smoking is safe? Do you still claim nicotine is not addictive. 40 years ago the tobacco industry dismissed attacks by “radicals” who made these charges as being non-scientifically based, bet you did too.
No one is denying methane issues. The extent of those issues, the degree to which they have been remedied and the false portrayal of Dimock as a destroyed industrial zone with dirty water are all legitimate issues and bringing them up is anything but cruel. It’s time that jug of dirty water was tested. As for the roads, I urge anyone to go to Dimock and see how they have been rebuilt. It’s worth the trip.
http://protectingourwaters.wordpress.com/2011/07/16/new-report-reveals-toxic-air-near-natural-gas-operations/
Water,Air,Soil Contamination, Noise Pollution, Stress Disorders,Skin Rashes,Nose-Bleeds,Vomiting,and increased risk of Endocrine Disruption,Cancer,and Death…All proven in myriad Peer Reviewed Scientific Studies of current Gaslands. WTF is so Frackin Funny?
I just read through your “peer reviewed” report and had one problem – where is the peer review. It looks as if a few groups with preconceived and severely biased notions about the gas industry, supplied community based groups with scientific equipment to take samples at random locations (around the world). In one picture, pg. 24, it shows a sample being taken next to an intersection of a highway. Does anyone else see something wrong with this??? Also this same picture and probably the rest of the study study does not take into account other activities in the area like farming or even lawn care (fertilizers, pesticides, etc…). And how do we know these volunteers were not smoking next to the equipment? These are just a few of the many questions associated with volunteer studies that are “peer reviewed” by actually no one.
The only smearing that’s being done is by those who portray Dimock as a wasteland when it’s anything but.
having fun ridiculing people whose water was contaminated by gas drilling for speaking out about it is smearing tom.
being funded by multinational big energy money , spending mulimillions in national advertising at every level to promote a false image belied by scientific fact of “clean natural gas”, more multimillions lobbying goverment at every level, and berating a small contribution from a few countys away for a public message from real people who live in the PA gasland to their neighbors is plain embarrasing hypocrisy.
Every message from you mgold reveals you are more about anti-capitalism than anything else. I love Dimock and the people who live there and I’m not about to let them get keep getting trashed by idealogical foes who see this as an opportunity to go after capitalism.
buy off politicians and regulators to make sure highly toxic frack waste is not classified as such,
now not only cheaper to dispose of , but hey,
lets sell it to back to the state highway dept for road salt… gotta love good ol capitalism eh tom?
“When Pennsylvania regulators tried to strengthen state oversight of how drilling wastewater is tracked, an industry coalition argued vehemently against it. Three of the top state officials at a meeting on the subject have since left the government — for the natural-gas industry.” http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/02/us/02gas.html?ref=drillingdown
your employers are known for and have a long documented history of highly unethical behavior: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/11/usa.oil for example…
EID and your attempts to paint anyone who points out the enormous risks and potential catastrophic consequences of highly untested, unstudied, unconventional HVHF , as an “anti”, a “radical”, an “anti-capitalist”, from another planet, etc is revealing of the bullet points your are tasked with firng.
You continue to prove you are just what I suspected you were – a radical anti-capitalist who simply sees gas as an opportunity to bring on some sort of new world order.
again, your notion is absurd that citizens who do not want toxic waste spread on their roads, or who do not believe industry spin on what is an unproven and highly risky process with questionable long term economic benefits are anticapitalist radicals from outer space . As a self made man and a large landowner, i could not be more of a believer in capitalism ,democracy, and building a sustainable future. The facts as i and a great number of americans see them, show HVHF to be incompatible with agriculture, clean air, clean water, tourism, and citizens rights to the quiet enjoyment of their property . Further, coupled with the enormous environmental risks, many see the economics of shale gas as speculative, and not the clean or cheap bridge fuel it is touted as . Industry experts and reasonable minds of all political parties have reached similar conclusions. To dismiss all nonbelievers with the crude broad strokes that you do makes you look stupid.
We’ll let the readers decide who looks stupid, mgold, us or the people running around with jugs of brown water that nobody’s tested.
Any or all of your posters do not mean a thing, but my common sense means a whole lot; pumping toxic chemicals into the ground can’t be good. My God, the earth is alive, is natural, and it breaths… not to mention the aquifers, the ground water, our property values, our health, and that of future generations. RADICAL! Who needs enemies outside of our borders when we have people like you who would destroy us within them! Get real!
And that’s a major part of the problem with misinformation. Your commons sense does not include reading studies and looking into the facts and science. You discredit any information that comes from the industry, whether it’s from a landowner with a well on their property or an employee who has worked in the company 30+ years and who is following in the footsteps of parents and grandparents. You close your ears to anything that doesn’t match up with you common sense analysis of something you know little to nothing about. I am an environmentalist, always have been from my days in elementary school digging milk cartons out of the trash in the lunchroom so they could be recycled to the way I treat my own property today, and I understand that irrational fear that seizes you when a new industry enters your neighborhood. I remember very well the conversations my neighbors, friends and family had (and still have) when a truck rolls by my house and you can see a well flaring in the distance at night. The difference is what you do about that fear. I took the time to take courses on natural gas, read everything I could find from studies to news articles, asked questions and drove up the street to see the activity. When it was all said and done, I took this position confidently because there is a lot of misinformation in my community and I wanted to be a part of the solution to educate the populous. Those of us that seek to get the truth out there are not the enemy. Natural gas can and has been extracted in a safe manner that is not harming our environment in the extreme ways you describe. I have a shallow well that is located downstream from a drilling pad and I drink my water, give it to my pets, bathe in it, and have no problems with it. The cows upstream are far more of a concern to me than the drilling pad. People I know who never had health care have it now because they finally have jobs and employers who actually have concern for their well being. And I would proudly bring kids into this world and have no fear for my nieces and nephews, knowing that they will be raised in a community that finally has something to offer them. As for property values, have you looked into trying to buy real estate in drilling communities. The values of the homes are anything but low–with or without the mineral rights attached.
Right on, Nicole!
Nicole,
I appreciate your research however, research obtained via the industry is just as viable as the untested jug of water in dispute. I think it is also essential to point out that you continue to reference a shallow well which is completely different than Marcellus Shale drilling. Yes, everyone please educate yourselves! We are talking about two completely different forms of drilling which have differnent impacts! Yes, we all use energy. Is the gas contained in the Marcellus Shale going to disappear overnight? NO. So, what is the rush. Why can’t we conduct viable environmental impact studies, protect out water sources, respect the residents of the land, and find the safest way to extract this gas. Yes, the people are upset. The industry is destroying our homes, our water, our health, and our way of life. How can the industry work with the people and the land? I’d say your smear campaign shows the people just how much respect the industry hold for them. The industry is making record profits; why can’t they place a 20-30 year bond to ensure that any damage done will ammended. Unfortunately a bond that protects our water sources, health, and roads would have to be in the hundreds of trillions. That’s why people are upset…the industry smears the people, runs off with the profits and leaves the residents with hundreds of trillions of dollars in damages.
Jack, I am referencing my shallow drinking water well when I said shallow well. The natural gas wells surrounding my house are Marcellus wells. Sorry for not being clearer about that.
Let’s work together and find ways to continually do it better rather than engage in all this holier than thou radicalism that rises from natural gas opponents.
You guys ( Marcellus initiative) should go away. I know these folks in Dimock. Their water IS highly toxic. It has FRACKING FLUID IN IT!!! What more can I say? TRUTH is TRUTH. They are trying to warn the rest of us. We do not want high volume noise, traffic and pollution in our towns. Nor do we want the slightest possibilities of poisoned water. NO WAY.
This is a great example of why it is so important to have this debate. Your assertion Dimock water wells have fracking fluid in them is just plain wrong. There is no evidence of this in Dimock or anywhere else for that matter, yet you state it confidently as if it just had to be true. It is not true and you need to re-examine your premise. There are plenty of good points you might make and about which we could have a reasoned discussion but when you start off with an untruth (that I suspect is wholly innocent on your part) you foreclose that opportunity.
What do you believ to be the issue with the wells in Dimmock? Just a coincidence perhaps? If so how do you explain the water buffaloes? Would that not be an ackowledgment of fault on the gas company?
Reguardless, if it fracking fluid in wells or not, please feel free to explain what has caused the issues and why it has happened since the drilling to so many?
There have been methane migration issues in Dimock. That is a fact. The exact cause is not clear but both DEP and gas companies have been addressing it and, as you undoubtedly know numerous landowners were provided with water, filtration systems and settlements equal to twice the assessed values of their homes. We have talked to several who are very pleased as a result. Some, however, pretend they have no water or run around with jugs of dirty water that no one, to our knowledge, has ever tested. We’re tired of the silly props and would like to see some testing of the water in that jug before we accept the verdict of a small minority of landowners over the opinion of the well satisfied majority who are sick of the gimmicks.
We know these folks in Dimock, too. Probably a lot more of them than you because overwhelmingly more are satisfied with how the situation has played out and are tired of their home being seen as a toxic wasteland than those that are still yelling and refuse to have any problems fixed. What is in that dirty jug? It’s not frac fluid. Can’t be considering Dimock had a stray gas problem and there was no fluid contamination. It’s not highly toxic. It has methane in it, the same as countless homes across Pennsylvania since water wells were first dug here and on record since the 1970s in PA and 1930s in NY. In Susquehanna County alone, out of 1000 water wells tested, 930 of them have pre-existing methane in them without any drilling taking place nearby. Call DEP, they’ll tell you the issue in Dimock had nothing to do with hydraulic fracturing.
Traffic is an issue and something that is being worked on. Many companies are piping in water to take more trucks off the road and only using certain roads to get to places to limit the impact of traffic. Where roads are heavily used, they are fixing them to better conditions than they have ever been in. I live on one such road, I know. And if you don’t want to have even the slightest possibility of poison in your water, I hope you don’t live in a city where chemicals are placed in the water to keep it at certain standards or around any farms where manure or chemicals can make their way into your water system. Water wells can have naturally occurring chemicals like barium and arsenic right in them. Some people have been drinking this stuff for years without ever realizing it and without any drilling anywhere nearby.
So you can go back to your cave and hide from all of the risks in the world, but I live in a world where everyday we take risks just by getting out of bed in the morning, and in the case of natural gas, the benefits far out weight the risks.
Great reply, Nicole! Tell them about your experiences when you get an opportunity.
Ironic you say to hide in a cave but you are the one pushing fossil fuels, which in case you are not aware is a non-renewable resouce, and frankly a dead end road
I happen to travel the United States as a nuclear inspector, I am all for alternative energy including nuclear power.
Before mouthing off I suggest you gain more insite on the subject matter from reliable sources…and let me give you a hint: if joe blow should post something on the web…please take it with a grain of salt.
PS,The road condions take last place next to our health so you can save your breath preaching how nice they are. It is only correct to fix what you damage.
Light travels faster than sound: some people appear bright until they speak.
Nicole is your job related to the industry?
Hold on here! I would like to know how many of you posting here actually know how many residents of Dimmock actually have this brown water? Oh wait! Should I ask, “How many of you have seen first hand who was effected with brown water?” I for one person do know. I worked for a company installing water conditioning and filteration equipment for 13 years prior to the gas industry entering the picture. I know that the people of the area didn’t care to pay to have their water tested on a regular basis as municipal water is regulated and tested daily. The only people that even seemed concerned with the quality of their water were the ones with sulfur (smells like rotten eggs), or the water was discolored like when iron is present. The earth is full of minerals that are soluble in water, many times a well at one house can have a test completely different from a neighbor with a well only 10 feet away. I was the installer that put in the filtration systems for those homes on Carter Rd. in Dimock, and they are neighbors of mine, being that I only live about 15 miles away. Out of the homes that were effected by the drilling process, only one showed a dramatic increase in what you called brown water, which was more of a tan colored fine silt. I would like to note that it was also the well that was closest to the gas well and on the first day of drilling the resident noted that their water was effected. The company that I worked for was called because we were a local water conditioning company and we had worked with the DEP before at numerous industrial accidents to clean up the well water. So we installed the treatment that worked the best in the past for the water problems like the one that resident was having. However there was still very fine particles that would settle in a glass over night so we added a smaller micron filter after out system to catch those particles. Then after the drilling had been going on for a couple weeks is when the there was a gas leak into the wells closest to that particular gas well. Once again DEP called us to fix the problem, and this is when we installed open areation systems in the effected homes and some of the surrounding homes as a safety precaution, all paid for by the drilling company, and by order of the DEP. All this happened before the fracturing of any gas wells began. In my experience, when ever you poke a hole in the ground, there is some chance that it will effect the quality of well water near by or even miles away in some cases. Just ask some of the people in the Poconos who have new neighbors move in and drill a water well on the property next to them, they will tell you all kinds of horror stories, but also that our company was able to install the proper water treatment system to remove the thing that contaminated their water. Sometimes to find the proper treatment it take a trial and error process, and other times the contaminent if evident from the start. In one such case as the one with “brown water” in Dimock, the testing to find the contaminent was a very costly event and our company would not be able to test for it because we are not a certified lab. It was up to the DEP and Cabot to find out what was in the water so we could apply proper treatment. I don’t know who was at fault for not getting the testing done, but just that the whistle was blown before we could repair the problem and national attention was already wide spread. We were sent to this home weekly to make sure the system was maintained and filters were changed. After some time I was told that the people started getting municipal water delivered from Montrose and piped into the homes we had installed the systems in. What a waist I thought. I personally spent what is equal to a couple weeks time installing and servicing the water systems for these homes in Dimock. I am sorry for the troubles these people suffered with trying ti make time for the testing lab to get their samples and for the time the people from our company had to spend to bring the water quality up to their standards. After all that some people still didn’t trust their water enough to drink it, even though I know our water systems take out all the contamination and even more. Some of those residence just didn’t trust anyone who gets paid by Gas companies, even when it is a company totally seperate from the Gas drillers and DEP ordered then to pay for our work. I don’t like the fact that they are responsible for the poor water quality in that are or that some of the water quality problems were always there, but it has brought good paying jobs to a poor community. I know farmers in this area who would have lost their farms if it was not for signing a lease with the Gas companies. I know neighbors who were driving 50 miles to go to work before and now have jobs that keep them closer to home. I am one of those who was working as a Skilled Laborer/Technician, and have found a simple labor job only 4 miles from home that pays more and actually takes taxes out for me and for the first time in my life I will have Health Care for my 4 kids and my wife.
In every industry there are Pros and Cons, we have to determine if the Cons out weigh the Pros. In my case we need good jobs and a company that cares about its employees and the people who’s land we work on, because they are our neighbors and people we have known all our lives. Now the company I work for makes safety their number one job. For example what company puts every employee through 3 weeks of safety and orientation before they even have them do one task that can make the company any money? I even had to get certified to run their weed wacker. No body is allowed to operate any type of power tool or piece of equipment until they are certified and know all the safety issues and proper handling of that machine or tool. If there is a spill of any type it is the duty of each employee to contact OSHA, the DEP, and their supervisor, and we all have to have those phone numbers on hand every day. For every task, we have to fill out a Job Safety Analysis before starting to work, and this form lists all the potential hazards that have anything to do with the job, and proper procedures to prevent an accident. It even comes right down to the weather and such things as sun burns.
I am so lucky to have gotten a job like the one I have now, and never though I would ever be able to support my family if I stayed in North East PA. I have an Associates Degree in Electronics, but was not able to find a job in the field, so I started doing Plumbing and Water Conditioning, but still couldn’t make even half the money I would in other parts of the country, so when gas came to the area I saw the prices of home go up and fuel go up, and even food prices went up, but my pay was going down, because I had to travel farther and farther from home just to stay busy at work. Yet I was not making enough money to afford to buy a home myself.
What would you think a good plumber makes that know how to treat water? Well it was less than $30,000 per year after 15 years of struggling, and where is a guy going to find a home that is affordable enough to have 6 people in on that kind of income?
All in all, I think Tom knows what he is talking about, and if you haven’t lived here in NEPA most or all of your life, then you haven’t got a clue what it is like to struggle like the people of this area have been, and you can never understand what it is like to see some light at the end of the tunnel. If you drive a car, heat your home with gas, oil, or propane, or even coal or wood for that matter, then you need this Gas that is under our feet, and the jobs it creates. If you are opposed to the industry and you think you are so smart, maybe you should get a job yourself and come up with a safer way to et to the gas.
My grand-dad always said, ” If you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem, and you had better just get out of the way, so the man working on the problem can do his job.”
If there weren’t fundamental problems with gas drilling, there wouldn’t be so many problems. Why attack individuals (and this is an ad-hominem attack) when you could spend time fixing the problems known to exist?
Problems have been fixed and are being fixed
No, they haven’t been fixed.
So say you, but they are being fixed and the only people who still rely upon trucked in water are those who have refused to accept the offers to fix. Nobody, absolutely nobody has to rely upon a damaged water supply. Everyone either got a fix or continues to get water. All the stories about showers in dirty water and the like are simply undocumented wild claims and no one, to our knowledge, has ever tested or certified what’s in the jug of dirty water so frequently used as a publicity prop..
Tom,
Notice how she doesn’t actually reference any problems. Maybe she just likes using the word over and over again. Instead of creating more problems I though I would share this fact sheet from PennState Cooperative Extension in case some one actually wanted to learn how to correct a naturally occurring methane problem:
http://pubs.cas.psu.edu/FreePubs/pdfs/XH0010.pdf
This document titled Methane Gas and Its Removal from Wells in Pennsylvania states “Methane gas, also known as natural gas, occasionally enters private drinking-water wells in Pennsylvania.” Furthermore “Methane gas alone does not cause health problems”. What a concept coming from a reputable institution with actually peer-review studies (yes that was sarcasm directed back at Dean Marshall’s so called “peer-reviewed study)
If you read through the rest of the PDF you will see some instruction on how to properly vent your well to help remove you methane. You can also install more advanced systems to handle this.
Perhaps the best part of this document is at the end where it says © The Pennsylvania State University 2006.
Tom …you proceed to lie …like a rug!!!
And, who is it that’s engaged in name-calling?
Make sure you can find the Dimock hot spot on an isopach map
http://my.brainshark.com/Ponzi-Gas-Frackers-8298212
Very informative and urge all to watch, thank you for sheading more light on the subject Jim. The more information we have from both sides, the more likelyhood we are to make sound judgements in our future.
Wow all this talent of experts in on place!
I am working on a report and with all this talent in one place maybe a few of you could spare you vast intelligent s… could you help?
What are windmills made out of?
I cant seem to get a release from any company on the full list of composites?
I am serious ….. I know when I asked the guy with the duct-taped pickup truck with the big blue signs on it.
His answer was metal… Nothing other? I thought because he had signs like that he might know more but all I got out of him was a blink blink cricket cricket.
When I asked Rick from Colorado he started with the batteries. Rick said the batteries
he uses are plastic gel and led,and his have lasted 20 years. I asked him what brand and he didn’t know he said the poison air from the gas fields have caused him to lose his memory? Again I do not know the life span of the batteries and which brand is better?
I mean 20 years we sure have come a long way since the Baghdad battery
I know this may be a simple question, but I am just a simple guy doing a report and we have many experts here so please can you give me a list?
I couldn’t find it on the DEC, DEP or EPA sites?
Now don’t go giving me links I need it in your words…anyone can link.
thanks
Perhaps if they where hazardous to life and health you may find the answer through OSHA’s MSDS. It is require by federal law that these be posted and readily available to all employees, emergency responders and those that may be in contact with the chemicals.
More questions on my report I am doing on windmills.
This report is compiled of public comment…
What are windmills made out of?
No answers yet…just another useless weak comment on check the epa, osha ,and MSDS sheets. But I do have to say thanks for having the guts to try.
I can say that about anything please do not insult your own intelligence. Give actual answers.
What are windmills made out of?
Have windmills every caught on fire due to over heating motors?
Are local first response teams skilled in wind mill problems?
With all the special interest on this blog I would think someone would be able to answer my questions.
I see the folks so concerned with NG have not responded to my windmill question.
WHY?
It appears you do not care about alternative energy you are just against things.
You have no knowledge of how you would replace what it is your fear?
So how is it you can advocate for it?
Again anyone can toss out a comment with a link thats simple stuff. I need it in your words. This helps me understand if folks really understand anything you comment about.
Please show me you have done some research on what it is that will replace NG,Coal, Oil,
more specific to windmills as not to avoid the questions.
I to have concerns.
Tom, I have read the eid reports on windmills however it does not cover what I am looking for.
The questions are geared for your guests.
all the good on alternative energy is found with one exception they cant sustain the power needed for a grid. Strange sustainable cant sustain?
Please keep the cheep shots to a minimum I would prefer fact based information. I know this is hard for many guest but please do your best.
Tom is this your brother???
Bryant is indeed a brother in spirit – great guy!
If you are truly looking for both sides I suggest the Energy In Depth Library at:
http://www.energyindepth.org/library/
I cannot actually say what they are made of, I am aware of the lack of fusion issue they had in the blades which require extensive weld repair, I am also aware they have not discovered adequate cooling for the generator due to the large amount of friction within the gearbox. No oil on earth can cool it if what I heard from unscientific personnel.
None the less, as technology progresses (as it has with gas extraction), there is always a potential this path will show more promise, and it is a step in sustainable energy, which is of course more than I can say about the gas topic.
For more information on the things you request, I recall the blade issues propagated somewhere in Houston, there is also a manufacturer in Spain I believe called Gamnasia or something to that effect. They also store a majority of windmills destine for the northeast/mid-Atlantic area in the railyard/docks area in Morrisville PA.
I am more knowledgeable on Nuclear as an alternative energy, but as an inspector I am also kept abreast of various industry events and shortfalls.
.
Tollie
Good reply I am gathering information and your friction comment is of great concern.
I see it is not uncommon for windmill motors to catch on fire. The composites and coating and lubricants become an issue when they burn releasing extreme amounts of toxins into the air. I also had some pm s local first fire dept are not prepared to handle a fire 200 feet up. They do contain the ground area when melting parts fall. Unfortunately at this time the solution is to let them burnout. The other great concern is the life span. Windmills will have to be disposed of “cradle to the grave”. If the company does not exist anymore the issue falls back on the tax payer.
Wow you have to see this…..
In my research I turned to youtube I did not expect to find this.
notice the debris on the ground looks like fiberglass nasty stuff when it burns….
Chip,
You make no sense but miss no opportunity for self-promotion, I see. FRom here on out if you have something intelligible to say we’ll publish but if not, or your post is nothing more than advertisement, it will be trashed.
“…..I have a rent house that before all of these procedures happened, was a nice house. Now, I have cracks in the foundation, and cracks in the yard, and a brown sludge that smells like paint is seeping out of the cracks. I know I can’t be the only one on Trent Drive with this problem. …..It should not be called ‘ developing ‘ if the outcome is destructive to the heath and welfare of the community.”
Read more: http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/02/23/2872452/arlington-tells-chespeake-energy.html#ixzz1SIKy2yd0
Accusations and speculation need to be accompanied by evidence. Truck traffic is undeniably a relevant issue but I’d like to see the documentation because this sounds pretty bizarre. I’m not saying you’re wrong, just that you need more than an assertion to make your case. We’ve seen too many cases where accusations turn out, after all the publicity, to be unfounded (e.g., the Crystal Stroud case).
If everything said about the brown jugs is true why is it that when the media comes water comes from the kitchen spigot(provided water) Next a cut scene to the brown jug. Why don’t they show the water that comes from the well? If the water is so bad what right do they have to say no one can put a treatment system on the well(free of charge)(outside the home) to clean the water. If all they care about is clean water if their water is really dirty brown jug dirty then why refuse to let it be cleaned and shown/witnesed? If it isn’t cleaned it could contaminate someone else’s well. Isn’t it true that the home had water issues before it was purchased by these “people”? These people use 550 gals of chlorinated municipal water a day(not counting drinking water)If they don’t get it they run out. It is all provided free of charge. Don’t normal people use a lot less than that?(maybe 70 gals a day) Any bets if they had to pay for the water they wouldn’t use so much? What would 550 gals a day of water do to someone’s sandmound that is designed for maybe 250 gals. a day? How many gals. of free drinking water is stashed in the home? Hasn’t one of the litigants refused to take a water buffalo? If the water was so bad why would you refuse?
70 gals. of water a day per person not 70 gals. a day per household.
do you think that you could sell your property with a water buffalo…the point is they are mad that some strange company has come in ruined their water and devalued their property.WOULD YOU BUY A HOUSE WITH WATER BUFFALO…bad enough drilling is in the area around them….come on buddy think about this…..GET THE REAL FACTS …..BRO
Even more confusing is the “read more article” you included at the end of the post. Did you even pay attention to the article referenced by the hyperlink or are you trying to tell residents in NY and PA that the Chesapeake is drilling a well near Cowboys stadium? In case you didn’t know the great states of NY and PA have enough football teams – Eagles, Steelers, Giants, Jets, Bills – and do not need to hear about the Cowboys (kind of a rivalry thing). But we sure do enjoy reading about new gas wells; keep up the great work Chesapeake!
As for the cracks in your foundation, they tend to happen over time as the house settles. Take for example my house which is 30 years old and has many cracks in the foundation. Normal wear and tear over the life of the house. As for the sludge maybe it’s a septic problem.
There’s nothing cruel about asking the folks running around with a jug of brown water to tell us what’s in it and prove it, especially when they have chosen the spotlight themselves and make any number of unproven accusations that starin all credibility.
Tom, If you or the gas companies want to know what is in the jug then there is nothing wrong with the gas company telling us what is in the fracing fluid. Fair is fair. We should allow us to make desicions based on facts not on propaganda (on both sides just to be fair).
And as far as people being anti-capitalist, well, this is a boom and bust industry. And most of these gas companies bring in transients (not their whole families) to work. So please inform me on how this will be beneficial to the towns, tax bases, etc, where the fracing is taking place? As you keep saying you need some evidence well so do I. I would like to see the facts as well not you or your friend Nicole just spouting off at the mouth, thanks!
Go to the Pennsylvania DEP website and see what’s in the fluid, Anne. There’s nothing secret about it. Moreover, individual companies are disclosing it as well. You might also want to go to: http://www.energyindepth.org/frac-fluid.pdf
I am not from PA. I live in NY, there are different rules and regulations here. In NY the gas companies only have to disclose to the DEC and the DEC has no obligation to disclose this information to the public. And as far as your “proof”, give me something that is independent. EID is skewed towards the oil industry. Sorry I don’t buy it.
Interesting how EID forgot to mention that there are over 100 different compounds going into the fluid. Had a guy from a local gas company on the radio this morning who admitted to it.
P.S. You can’t drink or eat money.
Go to the Pennsylvania DEP website at: http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/minres/oilgas/new_forms/marcellus/Reports/Frac%20list%206-30-2010.pdf.
the chemicals listed with the DEP are general such as acid ,propants whatever….also if the company has trade secret formulas they could patent them and be protected from copy….concentrations on chemicals can make a harmless one into a dangerous ,poison…..
Bill even the chemicals on the link Tom provided are obscure at the very least. And to Tom, yes there are chemicals in every house but we can look up all the chemicals under our sink to get the information on each product/chemical. The companies who are fracing are not giving people all the information needed to make an informed decision.
Tom I wouldn’t think of pouring some of the chemicals under my sink around my well,yet you pro drillers see nothing wrong with the sink chemicals being injected into the ground…30000 gals per frac job X 6 wells (possible 2-3 frac jobs on a well in hard shale) X40000-400000 wells (proposed in the Marcellus) extraction 15%…leaves 85% of 30000 in the ground X (the low amount of wells)….==BILLIONS OF GALLONS OF SINK CHEMICAL(that’s what you called them)in the ground to migrate over time into deep fractures (in N.E.PA)and enter water tables possibly…….Don’t try to play this process down you and I know it is a crap shoot and the people living in the gas drilling areas will be the ones that pay….and the gas companies and all the geophysicists associated with them only can assume that nothing will occur….also they cement 1000 feet down what happens to the other 5000 feet that’s not cemented when it hits natural methane ,barium,radon,etc….which can also migrate…..disturbing the subsurface can cause problems all geologists know this…..why don’t you……
Shallow methane migration is an issue and it is being addressed. There is no evidence fracturing fluid has ever polluted a well in a 60 years of doing it. Also, the accusations about barium, made so strongly by Crystal Stroud, have turned out to be wrong, as have the speculations about radium.
Tom ,you say shallow methane problems are being addressed….how, what is the industries plan..I’m truly concerned to know …there is no addressing a problem that can arise anywhere when drilling is done.About having no evidence that frac fluid has ever migrated in 60 years ,if you are well inform you know that Horizontal Fracing has only been used since 2005 ,is a different process from vertical well fracing come on don’t try to fool people (seems the industry keeps bringing out this 60 year stuff even though they know it’s bull….as far as Crystal Stroud is concerned the DEP did say that there was no connection between her problem and the drilling which I believe will be proven to be connected in the future (so the industry can use this to escape from being responsible for polluting peoples water for a while,but eventually a connections will be proven…I work on this every day…)….if you read the latest about shale gas migration it was stated in the Towanda Review about a week ago that the industry knows N.E.PA has unusual amounts of methane pockets that haven’t been tapped ,like the ones in western Pa. and we also have large fractures that go right up to the surface and this is why they have been having a lot of problems with drilling and peoples water in NE .PA….they say there are both bio and thermo genic pockets in our subsurface…..yet they are allowed to continue to drill in our area because our legislators are not working to protect the people of PA(Including our Governor)…just all about the money and not about the future of the state …they did it once before in PA with the coal industry and didn’t learn from that screwup ….sorry to say…so say what you want ,but some day you might be regretting your support and comments…..don’t let the rewards of profiting cloud your reasoning ( your probably laughing but it’s true)..if you are a resident of Pa think of the future of your family and people you know….not just about the gain..Jobs are great for our state but health and environmental protection is the priority……
If you’ll read the New York State SGEIS, I’ll think you’ll find a very illuminating discussion on this. It’s at: http://eidmarcellus.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/SGEIS-Preliminary-Revised-Draft-7-1-11.pdf
This PDF has 736 pages ..please direct me to what you feel will enlighten me……besides this NYS SGEIS was the basis of the NY DEC approving drilling in NY(except) chosen areas of for NYC and Syracuse …..I don’t believe their decision is a good one and so do many ,many NY residents..from all over the state….and this is not over yet……..!!
Bill F. You need to check your facts because none of them are true. The first Marcellus well was drilled in 2005. High volume horizontal fracturing has been around much longer. You may want to check out the littany of information available on this. Also, I’ll be sure to take your word over a state regulatory agency.
I have been rural poor all my adult life. I will never willingly trade beauty and quiet, clean air and water and a livable planet for future generations for short term conveniences like gas, or money. Water is eternal and essential to all life, gas is so temporary it is gone the instant it is useful. I understand that tremendous volumes of water are drawn from natural waterways and made toxic as part of the normal procedures. If a process damages any part of the natural cycle all parts suffer. This process is harmful even without accident or criminal dumping. How long do you think the money will stick around your damaged town once the gas runs out in 20 years?
Humans created agriculture, art, architecture, literature and medicine without benefit of the internal combustion engine. We do not need fossil fuels, they are a convenience, a failed experiment. Everyone likes their conveniences but if we truly care to inhabit this world with dignity as a species it’s time to acknowlege and reduce the damages we cause. We have the brains and the technology to do it better than this. Do we have the heart?
I wish I could make sense of your comment but it appears, ironically, to be about wishing. Apparently you wish you didn’t need heat for your house and perhaps you don’t but millions do. That’s the real world and most of us have to live in it.
As an energy auditor and sustainable building advisor I am quite aware of heating options. A measure of the intelligence of an animal is whether or not it will soil it’s own bed in captivity.
Think about it.
“Sustainable building advisor” huh. How do you get to your projects? Also, thanks for bringing such an insightful comment such as soiling your own bed in captivity. Breathtaking.
Those who would sacrifice nature for energy do just that.
Tom and Nicole:
I’d like to invite you over to a Consent Order residence (mine) to drink the water and discuss the current data. The water in the jug was brown (based on PADEP provided data) in April of 2010, but after the Baker well was plugged, the iron in this well, along with the methane dropped to normal and insignificant levels and remains that way until Jan. 2011 with the exception of one methane spike. Unfortunately, the litigant’s won’t allow Cabot’s PA certified lab to continue sampling, and no further data is available. Having 11 homes with wells that were affected by drilling keep themselves off limits to sampling hurts us all. I guess the sampling was showing too much progress.
Loren
Awaiting your reply Tom and Nicole, sounds like a kind and sincere gesture. If this is what you are all about, pro gas, pro drilling, skip the excuses and step up to the sink!
Hi Loren!
We will be up that way for the Cabot picnic Saturday. Would you like to meet afterwards–it ends at 2? If Saturdays no good, send me an email and we can find another day.
I look forward to hearing from you!
Nicole
Hi, This is a very good idea, people like this can dish it out pretty good, but they can’t stand being laughed at. This is very good, I hope it works out. But, stand by for some serious name calling, that’s coming. When people like this resort to name calling; you got ‘em, it’s their last resort. Phil Balantic
Some people grow older and they grow out but they never ever grow up. People who name call(ie. in breeds, retards, etc) are still in the mind set of a Jr. High school child. It must have been an awful time so why continue to relive it. Just let it go. Take the settlement money and the treatment system and pay your lawyer bill. Put your house up for sale and get out. You obviously don’t want to live here. Poss. they are looking for a reality show. How about Frack This staring Dirty Jugs.
http://www.bellinghamherald.com/2011/07/14/2101381/epas-failure-to-investigate-ground.html#ixzz1SOofnkBl
Sorry, but that piece is garbage – rehashed nonsense that has been debunked several times. You’ll have to do better than that.
Thinking with your Gashole again ahh Tom?
Classy, real classy. The sheer genius it must have taken to come up with this comment. It is reflective of the brilliance of a self-educated expert who knows all there is to know about energy production, its capabilities, consequences and meeting domestic demand. With these credentials we need to get you recognized, send me your resume and i’ll be sure to forward to the Obama Administration.
Your cleverness and erudite thought know no bounds!
You have no right and no business calling my home a wasteland. Why don’t you come to Dimock with Tom and Nicole so you can see this wonderful place.
Suggest the jug hold nothing but typical coffee with the words. “US Government allows 2000 times more TCE in your cup of coffee than what is allowed in a cup of drinking water taken from a well near gas drilling”
Coffee is regulated by FDA; Water is regulated by EPA. They use different toxicity multipliers for parameters of concern.
I love this submission because it gets at the real issue, doesn’t it? This could be a winner! Some of the rest of you are going to have to get going to beat this one!
The NIMBY’s don’t understand toxicology, if they did, we wouldn’t be having this debate.
What some of these “litigants” have and continue to do is awful. They have told and continue to tell so many lies to so many people they prob. can’t keep track of it. It’s such a shame for the people who are and have told the truth. In the future it’s going to be very hard for someone who has an issue to get the DEP and Gas Companies to believe them because of people like these. They are ruining Dimock. It isn’t the gas company that’s ruined our property values it’s people like the litigants w/ all the signs in their yard. If you claim your home is worth nothing and can’t be sold you should put it up for sale and see if it can sell or not. You are the people who are attempting to ruin Dimock. Stop telling you lies! No one wants to hear you!! You have had your 15 min. of fame now put up your test results or shut up!!!!
A local businessman offered them $200K for their home and they refused. They want 3-5 million.
Loren, Congrats! You were our 100th comment on this post!
From what I’ve been told if a company damages your home you are only going to get what your home is worth and no more. To offer you twice what your assesed value is, give you a treatment system, you can continue to sue, and you get to keep your home. These people are just greedy. I believe the litigants are starting to turn on one another. Have you heard the stories they are starting to tell on certain members of the group?
Are you that businessman? Did you witness the offer? If not, then you’re engaging in rumor-mongering and hearsay, which is pretty much worthless.
“Poisoned our Grandkids!”
Your cleverness overwhelms me!
Your response is one tiny step beyond, “Nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah”. Very mature. Guess EID is hiring children.
Really? If this is your submission, it unfortunately does not meet the guidelines in the rules, but thanks for the entry anyway. Like our entry from a water treatment specialist, though, you might want to actually include some facts with these kind of statements in the future.
Nazi style propaganda. Time for the revolution to start !!! Let’s go after the C.E.O’s of these companies and destroy their domiciles like they do ours . Let’s not forget our legislator’s who took the dirty money…like our governor !
Your piece speaks for itself, “lawsuit guy.” It appears you favor violence over the law, however.
First of all, Rick, I cannot believe your comment. You really are the definition of a radical. Inciting violence to reach your agenda does not make it any more legitimate and it’s absolutely appalling you would even suggest it. Do you bomb abortion clinics too? I am a pacifist and am absolutely sickened by your comment.
It’s not the billboard – it’s the untested jug of brown water! Talk about childishness!
just saying “its a myth!” without any counter facts is surely the stupidest demonstration ever
continue to destroy the country that you will leave to your children, thats sooo clever
brainless
Well this is just hillarious! Let’s crack some more jokes about a family that has had it’s clean water stripped and is being poisoned for corporate profits…not jobs…not energy. Ican’t wait until karma gets you in the ass! Hopefully cancer! Rape, pillage, and poison, that should be your pro-gas message! You want to know what’s in the jug? I want to know what is in the “proprietary frac solution”! I don’t think the people will think it’s so funny when they learn you’ve been pumping carcinogens, radioactive materials, and toxic chemicals that cannot be removed into the water supply!
The hate comes out!
Jack, we’re not cracking any jokes. We’re simply allowing the other residents of Dimock to express themselves as well. You see one family doesn’t speak for the whole community, and they have turned themselves into somewhat of a joke by refusing the treatment and not allowing further testing. They don’t want their problem fixed. But people in Dimock are sick of the joke. They are sick of having their hometown image smeared and this contest is just one way of letting them get out their frustrations. Why is it that so many of you commenting on our site feel threatened by the other residents of Dimock speaking out?
And yes we want to know what’s in that jug because methane isn’t brown. Rust from the pipes they hit before they fill them is, though. And the frac fluid is not a secret. Here’s Chief’s: http://www.chiefog.com/fracturing_fluids.html.
Jack thank you!….. for using the word “Frac”. It shows we are starting to educate folks.Great start! Now keep the momentum going!
Try looking up “Hydraulic Fracturing” you are on the right path!
When the last tree has been cut down,
after the last tree has been cut down,
after the last fish has been caught,
you will find money can’t be eaten.
Natural gas development will save more open space and farmland than any other tool imaginable because it allows large landowners to keep their properties intact and make a decent living off them. That’s what will preserve the trees. And, by the way, I suggest you read Nicole’s story about the fish:
http://eidmarcellus.org/2011/07/11/the-mighty-marcellus-saves-a-local-trout-hatchery/
When the last tree was cut down on a north east island they called it Manhaten………
where can I find a MSDS on what is contained in the fracing fluid. I referenced the sites you suggest and “typically, on average, and approximate” do not constitute what “IS” in the fluid or scientific data about how it is contained “safely” underground.
Go to the Pennsylvania DEP website at: http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/minres/oilgas/new_forms/marcellus/Reports/Frac%20list%206-30-2010.pdf
Mmmmmm! Sounds delish! How much of this can I feed to my baby?
No, but you can brush your teeth with some of it.
How about you and Nicole do us a favor and brush your teeth with it! I’d prefer to keep Formaldehyde, Toluene, butane, Glutaraldehyde, and all the other chemicals and carcinogins out of the water. Especially when many of these compounds cannot be irradicated once introduced. Unfortunately, the people aren’t given a choice and the industry doesn’t have the common sense to protect our limited fresh water supply. Yeah profits and greed! Too bad we won’t be able to drink profit and greed once the water is contaminated!
It’s EID, Robert, and we’re not stooping. The issue really has nothing to do with the billboard, it was just the final straw for us and many citizens around Dimock who have had to listen to this same story time and again when the water is clearing up on its own in some cases and with the treatment systems in others. The group still speaking out refuses to accept any treatment options or to get their water tested again. Why?
We are standing up for the rest of Dimock–those people who are sick of having their town name smeared by a few at the expense of everyone else. It’s no joke what the rest of Dimock is going through as a result of this small outspoken group of people, when everyone else who was originally effected is satisfied with the outcome and drinking their water again. As a matter of fact, watch in the next couple of weeks as we go drink it too.
That’s why pencils have erasers. Thanks for letting us know, although it still doesn’t change the creativity of the entry. And just so you are aware in case you check back, the entries are listed in the order they were submitted, not by how many votes they have.
The fact that you created this contest indicates to me that your organization has a lot of jerks in it.
Really? You’re the one commenting.
No, it actually shows that we have taken the time to visit Dimock, got to know the people there, and like them are tired of seeing the misinformation about their town spread like wildfire. Last time I checked, giving those people who have been mistreated a voice did not qualify someone as a jerk.
Only the ones that work for,own large land plots ,businesses, or will make money from NAT GAS love it…….and those that aren’t making money from it in one way or another that are pro Gas drilling don’t have a clue about the process……
So, it’s about the money then for those who are anti-gas?
Tom you know it’s not about money for anti gasers…there is much more to life then money BRO…..Quality of our air ,water ,soil….peace and quiet of our surroundings friendliness of the people that use to be here in N.E.PA is much more important to some …Not you though it seems….this gas drilling has brought nothing but noise ,stress,and visual destruction to our area unless you love industrial sites in your back yard….(by the way I grew up with them in mine)….you and your group can tout this process all you want but it has and will forever change our area ……..and I’m truly afraid it will for the worst……it already has where I live in N.E Bradford county Pa…..I have 34 pads within a 4 mile radius of my house ….so don’t try to tell me it’s just wonderful…………..
You say you grew up with industrial sites in your backyard. I assume, therefore, you grew up elsewhere and came to Bradford to get away from that, at least to some extent. But, that’s also, apparently, what gave you the ability to move to Bradford County. You perceive the change as bad because you wanted and needed no more change, but plenty of people who grew up in pastoral poverty do need and want change so they have same opportunities you had. Additionally, please consider that natural gas development is the only way to preserve the farmland and open space you treasure. If landowners cannot receive a decent economic return from their land they’re going to sell and/or develop it, with far greater impacts on the landscape than anything that will ever result from gas drilling. I am very familiar with the drilling in our region and as far as I can see places like Bradford and Susquehanna are just as beautiful now as ever. They are busier, yes, and there are inconveniences and traffic issues that have to be addressed, but those are small prices to be pay for prosperity so desperately needed.
I was born in an Industrial area, but have lived and worked in this area since 1975,raised 2 children here ( who are very successful now ,but I admit do not live here….I have experienced the poverty in this area first hand was laid off about 6-8 times so I can sympathize with the people having it rough,but I managed and now have it pretty well I admit …I love this area very much .I can live anywhere and choose NEPA…..looking at the way drilling is proceeding here makes me fearful of the loss of the quality of life that I want and love here….it has already happened around me .It is no longer a quiet place to live with strangers from everywhere traffic,noise, not to mention the possibility of pollution…I will mention I probably would tolerate a slower growth ,more regulated drilling process here with controlled spacing of pads and non saturation of every piece of our countryside,( even though I do believe this all will hit the Fan some day) but for those that have the land and need the jobs and business I would give in a little (I know remember I was there) but we are just going to darn fast and don’t have nowhere the regulations ,data on the effects (real time)and controls to keep this a possible safe venture….this is a beautiful place to live and that should be our first priority…as far a Nat Gas saving farms I really don’t believe that….
This is pure evil on behalf of the creators of this web page. Shameful behavior on your part. Very sad.
There’s nothing evil in seeking the truth and pointing out absurdities.
Here’s a slogan: Are you thirsty? Our execs drink water from Dimock every day. Hippies are carcinogonic.
Dr. Brown How was your trip to pa? Did you find what you were looking for?
We can always find what we are looking for. I have seen nothing creative, positive or helpful that you folks have contributed to anywhere ?
You have offered no solution to take place of the jobs and economic success that NG has had.
Please bring something to the table.
I have read and seen all kinds of reports MD, Dr, PHD, of this and that.
But no solutions?
If one wanted to take the power away from NG harvesting it easy.
Just come up with a solution that leaves no impact and creates jobs that does not use our tax dollars.
Come on DR. show use your brain power.
By the way I am not a fan of doctors until I do my research on that Dr.
I mean what do you call a Dr with a 2.8 and Dr. with a 4.o……. DR. correct?
we have freedom of speech and expression in this country and they are expressing
their frustration with our county and State and DEP and wanting their clean water back–
they have had many tests on their water and you can ask for the tests from the DEP via the freedom of information act and see the results yourselves–
I talked with the DEP two days ago, and they still have not determined that the Sautner well water and the other contaminated families’ well water is safe or fit to drink–
if you disagree with the DEP , then show the proof that their water is drinkable and safe–
Cabot still has to deliver household water daily and purified , drinking water weekly–
if you feel their water is drinkable , then come over and draw water from their well and the other affected wells on Carter Road and drink a full glass–and give it to your children to drink–
are you willing to do that–??
Hey Vera
They’re (EID) coming to my place on Monday and we’re all going to drink the raw well water from my well. As you know, my well is one of the 18 named in the Consent Order. PADEP has determined that the water in Dimock is safe to drink. Read the Consent Order and look at the data. Who did you speak to at PADEP ? I’ll call them today. I have all the available data on the Dimock gas migration, so you can’t mislead me. I will not tolerate your outrageous statement. The Saunter’s water has been fine since the Baker well was plugged in April 2010. Look at the data (or don’t you understand science ?).
Well Vera you see the problem.? They don’t want anyone to see or test the raw water. Why is that? They get drinking water every wk and a water buffalo of 550 gals. a day. That is a massive amt. of water and quite a bit more than anyone else would use. Seems that they must waste it. If you read back on the net as soon as they had a water issue they were provided w/ water so they didn’t really use the contaminated water unlike some people did. Yet they have claims of people being dizzy in the shower,rashes, and a son who couldn’t join the Army because he has to much iron in his blood. Maybe the real issue is they have a massive lawyer bill to pay and they just don’t want to pay it. Odd as soon as they found out what the bill was the lawyers were fired and new hired. If twice the assessed value isn’t enough, if keeping your home isn’t enough, if fixing the water isn’t enough, than what is enough for these people? It def. isn’t about the water now is it? If the water was that bad they would have moved already since she keeps saying he has a great job and makes so much $$ and they have soooo much money. They also wouldn’t have done the stupid utube video to the song 16 tons and they wouldn’t have lied in so many others. They are living for the camera and just want more and more.
I cant imagine if my water was ruined and this is the reaction it got. Another reason the gas industry has tainted our communities. Makes me so sad.
What happened here was awful to the people it happened to. Some of you were/are in a big hurry to jump in and help with what you thought was the truth. Now, you need to look back thru the statements made on the net, you tube, and the media. You are going to notice changes to what was said. Now, you need to think have you been listening to a reputable sorce and are you/have you been told the truth the entire time.
You make a great point.
Look I do feel for anyone having damage due to industry weather and just plain happenstance.
This is why we have insurance. Anyone thinking a company would come in to purposely ruin someone’s water for Harvesting natural gas or for doing anything is out of touch with reality.
Do actually think companies want to get sued?
However that is why we have liability insurance. Now on the other side you do have parasites that just don’t want to work and look to sue.
A possible wrong was done the attorney representing the client sues a settlement is made. The days of the million dollar hot cup of coffee are over.
That is what insurance is for………
If the company is wrong and keeps making those errors they cant get insurance anymore And even self-insuring if the company continues to do the same it gets shut down eventually a company will go broke.
Now the sad part who do you sue for media hype and calling a town wasteland.
Is it fair that the community has the black eye for a few?
Does the sign entering the town say:
Welcome to Dimock
Wasteland, Home of the BrownJjug!
or
Welcome to Dimock
Harvesting Natural gas to heat and power your world!
2009,2010 champions: Lowest unemployment in the common wealth.
Is the Jug half empty or half full?
How about the attorney that racked up the bills fighting for the JUG, they do not have insurance for a dead beat. This becomes a big mess. If I had to guess this is the reason for the “Jug Juggling”. You see greed comes in many forms……
In this case no one wins ……..
If it was all about the water and the environment why would these litigants refuse to have treatment systems placed on their properties (yes outside the home) not in and free of charge?(they can still sue too)plus get twice the assesed value for the home and keep it. How could you refuse to help the environment? These people have never answered these questions. That should give all of you the answers.
Why do you gas people keep trying to dress this up? Fracking is the most toxic means of obtaining energy on the planet. It plays Russian Roulette with the environment and anyone who has been paying attention to the Gulph blowout, the tragedy at Fukushima, Chernobyl, Love Canal,..etc. knows what is coming from this. This gas drilling misadventure mortgages the entire state’s ecosystem on the promise that the incredibly toxic mixture you are injecting into the earth full of already fractured anticlines is so deep, it will never come back up. There is no science to back this, you just say it and believe it is true. Who is zooming who here? This kind of short term eco-gambling is something for which our children will justifiably hate us.
You’ll find plenty of science in the New York State SGEIS. It’s at: http://eidmarcellus.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/SGEIS-Preliminary-Revised-Draft-7-1-11.pdf. There are also dozens and dozens of studies demonstrating safety and even Lisa Jackson at EPA acknowledges she knows of no case where hydraulic fracturing has polluted a water supply.
You are missing the point!!!!! Would anyone in Fukushima, Chernobyl, or any other place say “I won’t let you clean it up!!!”
Search all Marcellus Shale violations
http://www.bizjournals.com
YOU GAS INDUSTRY PEOPLE ARE SICK!!! LETS SEE YOU DRINK FROM DIMMOCK’S WATER, WHY DOES THE GAS INDUSTRY SUPPLY PEOPLE WITH BOTTLED WATER ?
We are going up there on Monday to do just that. Loren has been kind enough to invite us to his home where we will be having a glass of water with him. He is one of the 18 households who’s well was affected.
MS. COTTEN:
YOU’RE MORE THAN WELCOME TO COME TO MY PLACE AS WELL. DIMOCK IS A WONDERFUL PLACE AND THE WATER IS JUST FINE.
Why don’t you take a ride thru Dimock. Ride down Carter Road. Look at all the nice homes. Poss. one will stand out that may make you think would I want to buy a home on this road if it was for sale.
How come they are not for SALE?
Tillman sold his?
People were payed two to three times what they were worth?
If they call Dimmock home move to another house in Dimock?
I love my town. I moved three times each time a nicer place and more land.
But I had to work for the money to do that.
Please explain.
The homes were compinsated for around $250,000 each and you can keep the house and land.
If it is that bad have the house scrapped for materials donate the shell to the fire department. So no one other can be “POISIONED”
When our area flooded in 06 FEMA puchased the houses and you could no longer live there it was no longer yours. The money wasnt even close enough for people to replace the structure they had.
The amt. was on the assesed value. Not the actual value. Most people were offered twice what the home was worth or more. Yes, they can keep the home and land as well. So, why won’t they take the money and the free treatment system? The DEP mandated over a yr ago that the treatment systems be taken or the water would be taken away. So, why are they still provided with water!? They shouldn’t be! The water needs to stop!!! These people have no right to say that no one can test the water or clean it it up. The DEP should force these litigants to let the water be tested. If they don’t like it they can take the money and move they still own the home and the land. The thing some people aren’t hearing or seeing is that these people DO NOT WANT THE WATER FIXED!!! They only want money. They signed on with lawyers and now they need to pay the bill. No one forced them to sign the contract. That is the problem. What happened happened if these people have an issue with the water they need to LET THE WATER BE FIXED!! Complaining about it and showing brown jugs helps no one at all. These litigants are now the ones who may be contaminating our environment. What has been offered to them just isn’t good enough. In the beginning they thought they were going to get $75,000 for each person living in the home. Now they just want more and more. The DEP said time is the fix. Maybe the water is now fixed and they don’t even need a treatment system. If the water doesn’t get tested how does anyone know? TEST THE WATER! SHOW IT SO EVERYONE CAN SEE IT!!
No one here is saying someone is or isn’t telling the truth. Everyone is just asking for proof. If your water looked like the water in the jug wouldn’t you want everyone to see it come from your well? That way everyone would believe you and no one could doubt you. If your water looked like that wouldn’t you want anyone and everyone to test it so everyone would know just what was in it? Why should people just take your word for it? All we are asking for is proof. If you prove it I’m sure these discussions will end.
Harry,
Excellent.. that’s all.. prove it. Put up or shut up!
When I was in Florida the water was milky white they said it was calcium from shells?
When I was in Sullivan County NY it was brownish like the JUG! They said it was high iron.
No drilling any where near close in those areas?
Are you concerned you will lose your case and have no funding to pay the attorneys? Would credibility would be lost?
If it were me, draw your own sample test it, let me know! I would ask for three opinions since you don’t have to pay for it!
Are you concerned you will end up like the chicken little story of Mrs Strouds?
This would solve so many problem s for your neighbor’s news and your community.
One has to be very selfish to go as far as letting this impact a community.
If you are correct and Hydraulic Fracturing fluid is found in your well water fingerprinted to the chemicals used in the process at the time. You might actually give credence to your sympathizers.
One location causeing so many problems…. I think many people do not want you to have your water tested I just hope those folks are their for you when it is.
OurLand,
So, how about put up or shut up! I’d be willing to put up my water! How about Getthefacts and Loren too.? What do you two say put up or shut up!?
Harry,
That is what is needed. Bring in the best ….. total chain of care and custody ……
5 labs…. lets settle this garbage for the sake of all! Independent labs. Have two labs from out of the country.. Utilize science for a “double” blind study.
This brother fighting brother crap is getting old…………..
OurLand and Harry,
I’m willing to put up my water too! (put up or shut up) How about Energy In Depth get someone to test it.? Loren how about you two? Any other takers? We all live in the area close to the litigants. What do we all say Put up or Shut up!!!!!
As an experiment, I’d like all of you with well water to fill up a gallon jug, pour a little bleach in it and see what happens. I’d guess at least 20% will turn brown.
Interesting Podcast form both sides to listen too.
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/440/game-changer
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/play_full.php?play=440