Mixed Feelings on Jesse White’s Water Testing Hearing
Mike Knapp
President of Knapp Acquisitions & Production
Publisher – Knapp Acquisitions & Production PA Shale Gas Blog
*Article has been cross-posted
Mike Knapp attended the House Democratic Committee hearing on natural gas and DEP, hosted by Rep. Jesse White and Rep. Mike Sturla yesterday in Washington County, PA. According to Knapp, the meeting was all about politics when it should have been more about policy, lacking experts, relevance or science in general in the testimonies given.
Yesterday’s House Democratic Committee hearing, hosted by Rep. Jesse White left me with mixed feelings.
I had the opportunity to chat with the Representative for a few minutes, and it’s abundantly clear that there is middle ground to be found. I don’t believe White to be a “bad guy”. But I do think he likes to play politics. And given the lineup of speakers at the hearing it’s also clear that what this was more about politics and less about policy.
The hearing, which was billed as a discussion on DEP’s water testing practices, was noticeably devoid of one rather important thing: Science. Before we start down that rabbit hole, a little bit of background.
When the DEP is investigating water contamination, there are thousands of different things that can be tested for. If they think a junk yard is contaminating an aquifer, they have to test for certain substances, while if they are investigating a landfill for leakage they have to test for a whole other list of things. So, to standardize and streamline the process, decades ago the DEP came up with “suite codes”. Each suite code is a standard list of certain parameters to be tested in certain situations.
Of the codes that deal with gas drilling, there is one code that is most often used. A “base” code if you will. This code tests about 20 different parameters. A field inspector brings in the water sample and hands it off to the lab with the instruction to run the tests in the base suite code. The lab takes the sample, runs the preliminary tests, interprets the data, verifies the results, and then delivers them to the inspector. If that test clearly indicates there is no contamination, the results are delivered to the landowner.
There are other codes which test for additional substances, presumably to be used if results from the base code testing indicate further testing is needed. They are rarely used though. If water from a gas well were to get into a water well, it would be very apparent. You don’t need to take air samples for combustion gases to determine if a house is on fire. The searing heat, blinding light, and billowing smoke are more than enough to confirm it, as several experts state in the Trib’s coverage of the issue.
Here’s where White’s argument starts. When the DEP lab runs the preliminary tests for metals, the machine automatically delivers raw data on a whole bunch of metals, including ones that have little to do with gas drilling. So, the lab does not spend additional time/effort/money to go on to the next stage and interpret the data and verify the results on those other metals. They only do so for the metals that they were asked to test for. This has led to all sorts of goofy conspiracy theories, but the way it’s done in PA is very similar or identical to how it’s done in many other states, and many experts have backed up the DEP on its policy.
Here’s another twist. Pennsylvania is the only state that does not regulate private water supplies (water wells). Residents are 100% responsible for making sure their water is safe to drink. Unless another party contaminates your water, the state has no say in it. Thus, when the DEP investigates a claim of an aquifer being impacted by drilling, that’s what they investigate. Not whether or not the water is safe from high levels of other substances. Like it or not, that’s what the laws that are on the books instruct them to do. So it’s not a question of whether or not DEP is doing its job. It is. The question is do we want to expand their job description.
Craig Stevens “brown juggin’ it”
But unfortunately we didn’t hear much about that at the hearing. We heard mostly from disgruntled residents who had some sort of bone to pick with DEP on matters unrelated to the topic of the hearing. Several landowners reported issues of bad smells or additional water being diverted onto their property because of excavation. One landowner, Craig Stevens, is a “fracktivist” who shows up anywhere there is a camera to wave around a brown jug of water. He also threatened to punch DEP officials in the face, which was classy. Then we had PennEnvironment, who has no interest in improving regulation of the gas industry. Their goal is to ban all gas drilling in Pennsylvania. They’re the ones who brilliantly posted pictures of a flooded drilling rig in Pakistan on their website, claiming it to be in northeastern Pennsylvania after a tropical storm came through.
The only testimony that was offered that truly addressed the issue was Clean Water Action’s Steve Hvozdovich, who came with a list of not unreasonable questions that DEP could answer regarding their testing procedures. There were no water sampling experts. No water testing experts. No former regulators. No scientists, no professors, no experts of any kind that could offer pertinent testimony or answer technical questions. No data comparing PA’s testing procedures to that of other states. The panel asked few questions and made few remarks.
Again to give credit where credit is due, White was rather restrained in his criticism of the Department. I truly hope this indicates progress and a willingness to have a rational, hyperbole-free dialogue. This is an issue where White may have actually identified room for improvement in DEP’s policies. As a landowner trying to determine a problem with her water, those extra results could be very helpful. And I don’t like the thought of data that could warn landowners of a potential health risk, though unrelated to drilling, hidden away in a file somewhere in Harrisburg due to decades old bureaucratic red tape.
But yesterday’s hearing did little to advance the issue.
It’s my hope that all those involved will pull back from the political gamesmanship for just a few moments to do a bona fide investigation into whether or not there’s room for improvement to be made here. And if it’s done right, everyone comes out a winner. The DEP, the house democrats, the gas industry, and most importantly, the citizens of Pennsylvania.
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My Mike, it looks like you are starting to open your eyes.
This is the first close to fair and positive post I have ever seen form you.
Remember, the dance takes two.
Best Regards,
Don “Luigi” Crusan
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To clarify, the questions asked by Clean Water Action that the author of this piece found to be “reasonable” were the EXACT questions I asked DEP Secretary Krancer in a highly professional and respectful letter sent on December 5. We invited DEP to participate and they flatly refused. We issued multiple open invitations for anyone to participate, and we turned no one away. For all the talk of the hearing being political on my part, I barely spoke.
Check it out for yourself: http://www.supportjesse.com/2013/02/21913-policy-hearing-on-deps-role-in-environmental-testing-in-marcellus-shale-areas-full-video-and-news-recaps/
All due respect Rep White, but the professional and respectful nature of your letter may have been overshadowed by many of the other public comments that you have made. You’ve made some pretty nasty accusations.
But that’s in the past. I’m looking forward and trying to find productive solutions to these problems. Hopefully the fairly subdued nature of this hearing, which I commended you on, will be a step in the right direction towards mending the fractured (pardon the pun) relationship.
Writing nastygrams on the internets isn’t going to help anyone. And I think we all agree, it’s in everyone’s best interest to work together here.
I know it’s not something often seen in politics (but then again, you’re not the average politician), but maybe if you played the bigger man and came out with an apology for some of the accusations and comments that have been made prior, that would be a good starting point.
Just to get things going, I’ll start off.
Jesse, I’m sorry for the very incendiary and mean blog postings that I’ve made about you on the internet. Much of what I posted was not at all constructive, and was the result of frustration that I should have been more in control of. Craig Adams is my favorite Penguin, and history will remember Ke$ha as one of the most talented recording artists of our time. Next time we meet, the beer(s) are on me.
Cheers, and let’s go Pens!
Mike
No, you barely spoke, but you lined up all the usual suspects to do the dirty work.
Rep. White didn’t the letters on November 6th and 9th 2012 answer these question.
This is sad – this needs to be a discussion with a mixture of scientist and laboratory personal and educators, etc. The public needs to understand how a certified laboratory works and we need to figure out a way to get technical staff to communicate with the public.
There needs to be a balance if the PADEP is going to be an unbiased third party.
I’ve been following this water testing fiasco for quite some time and I think the lesson here is, any homeowner who is lucky enough to have a thorough base-line water test done BEFORE any drilling activity happens on or near their property, should do so. It is becoming more and more evident that testing of a well or spring water source, especially a household/drinking water source, is an absolute necessity before a natural gas well is drilled in one’s area. This is called baseline testing and the lab results form the basis of determining later if nearby drilling caused a change in water quality. If you later find that your water has been affected and there was no baseline test, it is still possible to establish that your water was affected by the driller, but it is much more difficult. If you have refused the driller’s test (if your well or spring is within 1,000 feet of a proposed or existing gas well) or do not have one of your own done, then you can count on the driller to say that your water was bad before they drilled. Let this whole Jesse White/junkyard debacle be a lesson. It is crucial that any testing by a homeowner, should be as extensive as one can afford for very good reasons in any claims. Here is an excellent site that gives a homeowner guidance on water testing do’s and don’ts.
http://www.wvsoro.org/resources/advice/advice20.html
It is my understanding that Pa’s Oil & Gas law requires drilling companies to test domestic water wells within 1000′ (or has it been increased to 2000′?) before drilling starts and again after gas well completion. Analysis reports are required to be provided to property owner. Also the last I knew, if there was a change of water quality or quantity in a domestic water well within the drilling area it was “deemed” to be the fault of the drilling. But with all that being so, there is nothing wrong with a property owner hiring his own laboratory and conducting testing for his own information. If someone is really suspicious they can have the samples analyzed for the EPA 126 priority pollutants plus metals. It shall only cost money. But in any event it providesa stake in ground and wide variations between driller testing and homeowner thesting would have to questionsed and resolved.
Last perhaps DEP or should consider collecting and correlating all of hte water testing data to get a sense of aquifer quality across the state.
Since Act 13 was enacted last year, the distance was increased to 2500′ and you are correct there is presumed liability within that distance. Brian Oram is actually working on taking baseline water tests and developing a database of water quality in Pennsylvania. It’s called the Citizen Groundwater Database: http://www.bfenvironmental.com/pawaters.php
You brought up a good point. All testing is not equal. I believe there are guidelines and requirements that all differ, including what in the water is actually tested for. I’m sure PA DEP has a site where those guidelines can be found. The best approach is on the link I provided although it is WVA link, but mentions PA. A good and thorough base-line testing unfortunately costs the homeowner a good chunk of money upfront, although, that cost could end up being priceless if something were to happen.
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Funny, my comments don’t seem to get posted to this site.
Jesse, we found this comment in the spam for some reason, but recovered it and identified it as “non-spam” so you should be able to comment regularly now.
Thanks Tom for getting that straighten out so Rep. White is able to comment. That goes to show you that this site is not afraid of a honest debate with facts.
Hi Jesse, with all due respect, I must say that my Newlsetters were also being sent to Spam earlier in the week. It appears that Microsoft is going overboard on Security again, this time as the gurus are trying to force us all into Cloud Computing. Tom was aware of this and offered to fix it, if I couldn’t. Funny thing about “The Cloud”. I have been using a form of it for about 2-1/2 years and Microsofts is the worst of the bunch. Now unto the gist of this post. I guess being a moderate makes me want to always take that position, or maybe you would call it the “Devil’s Advocate”, a technique I use frequently at work. I am glad that we are taking this out of the “Schoolyard Bullying” stage and into a more adult place. We have Veras on both sides of the argument. Let’s moderate them and quell ourselves form the temptation to bully. We need to band together here and fight the Ben Lupus types, not fight amongst ourselves. The saddest part of that whole piece of work’s greed is the affecting of the E&Ps and Drillers who may have contracted with him. Why should they be liable, OH & PA permitted him and what better proof would the company need to trust he would abide contractually. Let’s not let even a 100th of this type of thing happen in PA. I think we are off to a great start and can be the model for the world. Listen to the experts like Brian Oram also, not the emotions of those with financial interests.
Respectfully,
Don “Luigi” Crusan
pa auditor general is looking into matter also….am I getting this right…..suite code is given to testing after homeowner complains about water quality after drilling/fracking? also thought dep water sample is given code prior to testing at lab?
a complete test result numbers NEED TO BE GIVEN TO THE FAMILY/INDIVIDUAL. read the deposition!!! in my case….2yr old and 5yr old are dealing with health issues that medical pros cannot explain. if I had ALL THE TESTING INFO( METALS/CHEMICALS)OMITTED FROM MY TESTING RESULTS(SUITE 942) MY KIDS DOCTORS COULD EVALUATE AND MAYBE TREAT THEM NOW!!!!or rule out water issues and contamination due to a well next to my house fracked in sept 07. we need our full test results and NOW!!!!!!
YOUR ARTICLE DID NOT INCLUDE THE FACT THAT DEP DID’NT EVEN SHOW UP AT HEARING!!! OR ANY OTHER COMMUNITY BASED DISCUSSIONS!! WHERE WERE THEIR EXPERTS?? THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS IN THEIR COURT.(IN MY CASE). I CANNOT GET MY AQ/AH FOLDER FROM DEP!! WHY??? DO I HAVE TO WAIT FOR BILL 268?? ARTICLE MENTIONS…..EVERYONE IS A WINNER???? MY FAMILY DOES NOT FIT THAT CATEGORY. CLEAN WATER IS A MUST FOR EVERYONE IN PA….UNDER STATE CONSTITUTION.
With all due respect some of the comments on the Virginia Website are not the best choices for homeowners – I would suggest you download a pdf version of one of my talks on the key elements of third party baseline testing and parameters at http://www.bfenvironmental.com or go to my blog http://pennsylvania-solutions.blogspot.com/
Thank you for that link my friend……….very good.
Rep. White want us to feel that this was a unbias hearing and that no one applied
pro DEP , as the host to this committee he should have looked for experts not just enviromental groups that have their own green agenda. I will bet you a dollar he didn’t approach EID or any expert on the water table etc.or any organization that could show the gas industry has addressed many of the issues that people are concerned about Many times I have asked him to produce the two letters he received from the DEP, that spoke of their method of testing, back in November and he has choose not to, you can only ask the question Why?
proud american, you must realize that EID is a highly skilled and professional New Gathering and Reporting Entity, not an expert witness site. Tom and his staff do their job very well and if you really were involved, you would see a lot of guess bloggers, like myself for instance, who do guest blog. Rachael, Tom, Nicole, Joe, and the reat are based in Eastern PA and can not be present at every events. It is your job, proud american to be proactive, and either invite the local media or write a presentation of your own to allow us who were no there to understand what happened. Mike Knapp did it and he reported as such here.
Respectfully,
Don “Luigi” Crusan
http://www.marcellusindependenttechnicalsolutions.com/
“There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.” – Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
Every time you don’t follow your inner guidance, you feel a loss of power, a sense of spiritual deadness. – Shakti Gawain
Here’s the two letters straight from the DEP’s website:
http://files.dep.state.pa.us/AboutDEP/AboutDEPPortalFiles/RemarksAndTestimonies/Rep_Jesse_White_ltr.pdf
http://files.dep.state.pa.us/AboutDEP/AboutDEPPortalFiles/RemarksAndTestimonies/Rep_Jesse_White_ltr_re_Test_Method_200_7_Thomas_Hayes_Study.pdf
For all the people who doubt the DEP won’t go to meetings or hearings go to
phillyBurbs.com—–type Solobay in search box—–click on article DEP secretary Krancer hit on Marcellus Shale, small mouth bass article.
Rep. White theory that the DEP won’t talk about issues is false he stated that his Senator threw him under the bus on his Facebook site. Why because anyone who doesn’t agree with Rep. White is against him.
Of course, PA DEP Secretary Michael Krancer could have been there to provide “scientific” testimony on this matter. But I believe Michael Krancer is too chronically thin skinned to be anywhere that his mere presence is to be challenged by mere citizens.
First, he refused to meet with the coalition of environmental organizations about their concerns about water testing because Clean Water Action offended him.
Then, Krancer decides not to show up to a Democratic Policy Committee Hearing on the same water testing issue because it was “political theater”.
I believe that Krancer cannot stand the presence of anyone around him that is not fawning at his mere presence.
I call that cowardice.
I do have to agree about Krancer. Following the news, I hear nothing but maybes from him. I see he is torn between toeing the Republican Line (He was appointed, correct) and using any form of sound science. The latest I read was his response on Global Warming. Like everything, he talked out of both sides of his mount and really took no stance at all. Another Superb Reason why a One Size Fits All like Act 13 will never work in it’s present revision. It is so sad when one’s Job/Title overrides open discussion, honesty, and integrity. It is like the hands in my profession who work harder to get a Corporate Email and Title with a Major’s Domain. I find they spend their days protecting that Corporate Identity instead of addressing issues.