Truthland Heads Out to Josh Fox’s “Backyard”
No, Truthland hasn’t been shown in New York City, at least not officially, although a recent fear-inducing endeavor by Fox leads us to believe it’s certainly being watched in the Big Apple. This screening, co-sponsored by the Northern Wayne Property Owner’s Alliance and Energy Citizens, took place at the Beach Lake Fire Hall in Wayne County, about four miles away from the Fox family property (his father owns it). Around 100 people came out to watch the movie and get their questions answered from a panel of experts. Much to the dismay of attendees, Fox wasn’t in town to make an appearance – he rarely is – so this kept the innuendo in the big city and the facts in Beach Lake.
Before all of that, though, Shelly had the opportunity to talk with Dave Madeira at Radio Station 94.3 in Scranton. You can listen to the entire conversation here. And, be sure to read on to see some of the questions panelists answered.
Shelly Welcomes Everyone and Addresses the Importance of Natural Gas to the Area
Questions for the Panel
Panelists included:
- Brian Oram, Professional Geologist and Soil Scientist, bfenvironmental.com, Citizen Groundwater Database
- Dr. Scott Cline, New York Petroleum Engineer: Read some of Cline’s writing here, here, here, here, and here.
- Trevor Walczak, National Association of Royalty Owners-Pennsylvania Chapter
- Dave Messersmith, Penn State Cooperative Extension, Wayne County
- Curt Coccodrilli and Mike Uretsky, Northern Wayne Property Owners Alliance
- Shelly DePue, Truthland
Does hydraulic fracturing cause earthquakes? How many times can waste water be recycled? How do you determine the length of a well casing going down so that the water aquifer is protected and the casing doesn’t leak?
My neighbors water turned black after another neighbor drilled a water well. How prevalent is that with gas drilling because of the bigger area that the drilling takes?
Are they offering classes in college or high school that promote gas development?
Reactions to the Film
Pheobe Shaw
Katherine Ashe
Comments are closed.
Good job explaining the truth again EID!
Question:
I just saw in Josh Fox’s latest scandal entitled the “sky is pink” that Tony Ingraffea was shown saying that the only thing protecting the groundwater was a one inch layer of cement between the casing and the rock. Now that doesn’t sound correct. Could Dr. Cline or someone from EID clarify what that means???
Ingraffea also previously said that shale gas exploration was dirtier than coal and we all know how that turned out to be an embarrassment for both him and Cornell in general. What’s the truth on these matters EID??
As a practicing geologist and petroleum engineer for over 30 years, I was disgusted that The Times Union would print such a factually misleading editorial about alleged leaking gas wells without fact checking. References to comments in Fox’s “Sky is Pink” video by Tony Ingraffea that groundwater protection is simply a single one-inch thick layer of cement between the formation and the steel casing is incorrect.
While minimum cemented annular space varies by State it is common practice in shale gas wells to drill a 17 ½ inch surface hole, install 13 3/8 casing thus leaving a 4 ¼ inch cemented annular space: not a one-inch thick layer as portrayed in the movie. http://www.dec.ny.gov/energy/1757.html. I have never-ever heard of anyone drilling a modern oil and gas well with only a one-inch annular cement thickness. Shame on you Fox.
In addition, surface casing is fully cemented to the surface with excess returns, centralizers placed every 120 feet keep the pipe centered during cementing and then both the casing and cement are pressure tested to ensure integrity. Likewise as the well is deepened, intermediate and production casing are eventually run to the surface and cemented.
In the end at least three full layers of casing and cement cover the groundwater sources and annular pressure is continually monitored for any leakage. It is not surprising then that gas leaks are actually infrequent and fixable as DEC can attest.
Propaganda continues to deny New Yorkers the immense economic and environmental benefits of clean burning natural gas not to mention the opportunity to eliminate acid rain in the Adirondacks caused by coal fired plants in the Midwest.
Way to go, Scott!
Have you ever read this Penn State fact sheet on methane in water wells?
Methane Gas and Its Removal from Wells in Pennsylvania
http://pubs.cas.psu.edu/FreePubs/pdfs/XH0010.pdf
Yes – very good.
It says that methane in water wells is a rare problem.
“Methane gas, also known as natural gas,
occasionally enters private drinking-water wells in
Pennsylvania. This rare problem is usually confined
to deeper water wells in the state’s coal-producing
western and northern regions.”
Yes, it does say that, but the evidence is overwhelming that the problem has existed in Susquehanna County for generations. Read the following:
http://eidmarcellus.org/marcellus-shale/franklin-forks-facts/7643/
http://eidmarcellus.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Franklin-Forks1921.pdf
Yes I know about Salt Springs. But why are there more methane problems now? As I drive around I see the vents and water buffaloes on Rt. 29. It does not seem rare now, I read about problems all over where there is drilling going on. Not just in Susquehanna County either.
There’s now someone to blame – human nature at work.
That really doesn’t explain it though. Because if it was so common before instead of rare there would have been venting and water buffaloes. We all would have known about it and seen it and accepted it as normal. More folks would have had water filter systems before which they had not. Cabot has put them in peoples homes who have wells and they say they are happy with them. I never saw or heard any of this before the last few years. something is different than before.
The promoters of this JOKE of a home movie apparently aren’t responding to Marie’s point anymore because they’re rightly afraid that if they do, _I_ might pipe up.
The parts of the answer that they left out are 1) nobody ever had a pecuniary interest, until recently, in badmouthing the natural quality of my county’s well water (and that explains why even I, as an almost-lifelong resident of Susquehanna County, had never heard the water-lighting stories until recently), and 2) EID – despite its “official” videographer at the 6/26 Montrose screening being, like most if not all EID bigwigs, from OUTSIDE Susquehanna County – is so worried about THOSE kinds of FACTS potentially getting exposed through “outside recording” (to be shown where? on the internet? I don’t even know how to load my videos onto the internet!) that it told me (and obviously ONLY me, as I saw about 4 other people KEEPING RIGHT ON getting their cameras out as often as they wished) that there’s “no outside recording” of the discussion.
I hereby implore EID to IDENTIFY THE APPROXIMATELY 4 OTHER VIDEOGRAPHERS if it wants me to ever talk to it again.
Tom, we look forward to your comments.
I was the only EID representative at this meeting and did not speak with you at all during the meeting. I am in the process of uploading the entire Q&A session though and will have those videos available for the public shortly.
Venting of methane and sulfur on private wells is nothing new, although until recently it wasn’t covered in modern news much and tended to be a fun party trick for those who chose not to install any form of treatment systems.
Not questioning the veracity of the generations-old water-lighting stories (you mean you haven’t done enough including of ME in your cyberstalking of individual “anties” to know that I for one have never questioned the veracity of those stories?), on the one hand, and on the other hand, not recalling having heard any of those stories until 2008 (because nobody had a pecuniary interest in bothering to tell the stories, at least not enough for me to hear them, until about 2008) are two different things. I guess that’s too advanced of a concept for the kind of sheeple that the “Moderateland”-wannabe (my 2010 movie “Moderateland” at least has enough creativity to thumb its nose at Josh Fox by doing its road-trip narrative from the seat of a bicycle) movie that is “Truthland” is aimed at, to understand. So is the concept of the at least one other-than-you EID representative who was there – the lady who was working the EID table – BEING a REPRESENTATIVE of EID as far as a choosing-not-to-create-a-disturbance-about-it guy such as myself was concerned.
But thanks for the brownies. I’ve made it a point to NOT accept any of the free food nor drink at Cabot picnics, but a screening of a film (even of a LIGHTWEIGHT of a variety) that I understand SWN participated in the funding of is a different story. So, the brownies were GOOD!
But like I said, something is different now in our county. Water buffaloes and treatment systems and venting for one. I never heard of lighting water before but I am not saying some did not, I know that there is methane because of Salt Springs. I don’t get out much, especially to parties where they light their water!! LOL, do people do this? I must travel in the wrong circles. I would like to know why we see venting and things now and not before. I find this puzzling.
Part of this is awareness. At this point much of the county has had baseline testing and prior to that many people didn’t know what, if anything, was in their water. Brian Oram was trying to educate people his entire career on this, and now he says people are finally taking the need to test their water to heart. bfenvironmental.com
Yes, I am learning things and becoming aware of things more and more as I look into it. I am not sure if I totally agree with the explanations I read here. I do not feel like my questions are taken seriously. They are just explained away to make it all seem good and ok. If there really is a new problem it needs to be figured out and fixed somehow. If it is related to drilling, this needs to be found out and fixed. If it cannot be fixed, then I am worried about that. People sure are either big cheerleaders for drilling or dead set against drilling. I do not see much in between. I see that some benefit from it and some do not. And some have gotten a bad deal, it looks like to me. It is a mixed bag. Since I do not own a lot of land and I pretty much go about my business as usual, I am affected by traffic mostly. The traffic has really gotten to be much more. I hate the flares, they are so loud, they they wake me up. The gas stations are busier, the banks are more crowded. Rents are up so landlords make more money. None of it benefits me directly so I sort of just get the inconveniences. I wonder if we will get to use the gas in our local homes? Heating my home is too expensive. Also I wonder what our county will be like when it is all said and done. It’s not like it was before and that makes me sad, I miss the way it was when neighbors were not fighting. I see all the yard signs around and I read the news stories. To me it was better before. Anyway, that is really all I have to say. I am still confused about all the new cases of methane in peoples water. I do not think anyone really knows what is going on. I guess we will find out sooner or later.
Nina:
Ingraffea has been financed by the park foundation. Ingraffea spent 33 years teaching future engineers to prepare for the drilling industry and then retired. His credibility is zero as he never blew the whistle “so to speak” on the industry he supported through his teachings until there was retirement supplemental income to be made. If Ingraffea was on the pro side the anti’s would call him a paid shill for the industry, but of course since he is paid by the park foundation his word must be good cause as we have witnessed in the past… Anti’s rules are flexible when they work in favor of their cause. Tony is a good speaker always not trying to get caught in a debate he can’t lose, but he is not believable as he is not a member of the grass roots movement but is a paid instructor.
Here what an experienced water well driller who drilled wells for over fifty years has to say about methane in water wells.
http://www.naturalgasforums.com/index.php/topic,5955.msg87581.html#msg87581
Maria,
I was on the experts panel for the Beach Lake screening, but I was only attending the Montrose screening to assist with the NARO-PA display. My family & I are from Clifford twp, Susquehanna Co.
I am choosing to take part in the Truthland screenings because there is a valuable message that needs to be shared here. Yes, any water well driller that has drilled wells in the county can tell you stories of wells igniting when they brought open flames near the well casing. Numerous ones have shared these stories with me. Prior to the gas boom it was just an anomaly that we found amusing, and not much more. After the gas boom of 2007, these became common stories shared anywhere locals met. Not sure why more visual mitigation was not done, but they were commonly vented to prevent buildup of gas. It was this presence of shallow gas that led to my grandfather leasing our property for exploration in 1961, 1972, my father in 1982 & myself in 2008. We all knew there was gas here because of these stories for generations.
What I will also note is that I haved loved the natural Resources the county has had to offer. Bluestone, timber, etc. Many residents of Susquehanna Co have relied on these resources for their livelihood for generations. When the economic collapse took effect in 2008, the gas boom was luckily here to save us. I would hate to see what this county would look like if the gas had not come around…
Well said, Trevor!